Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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the AA name and with no Oxford Group affiliation. Clarence has presentday devotees who use his methods and report wonderful outcomes as a result. That speaks well for Clarence and ought to be publicized for those who will accept the special points he offered. His wife, Grace, carried on his work after his passing in 1984. Clarence was continuously critical of Bill W. and told me that "Bill never had a program." Bill was always conciliatory towards Clarence and never stopped giving him credit for his fine work in Cleveland. He would have liked having Clarence as a warm and supportive friend, but that didn't happen. They did have a good conversation at the International Convention in Toronot in 1965, a meeting initiated by Bill. I hope there is now harmony as both of them attend meetings of the Big Group in the Sky. Mel Barger IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3700. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: APOAR and Robert Emmett Rack From: Joe Adams . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/11/2006 12:30:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm not old enough to have gone through APOAR, but my father did and swears by it. He's now 80 with 45 years of recovery behind him (DOS: 2/6/1961). I have one of his two copies of APOAR - Applied Principles of Alcoholic Recovery, subtitled "Alocholism - A Metaphysical Malady". My copy gives a 1965 and 1966 copyrights with no mention of previous editions. Library of Congress Card No. A782629
starts and credits the APOAR approach to locking him in. They focused on the process* of Steps 4 thru 9 and had a good deal of success in the early 1960s with men of the Freedom Group in downtown Los Angeles. The book is not very well written but saturated with experience on doing the Inventory and Amends steps.
the the Twelve Steps or Alocholics Anonymous in any of the portions I've read. It is clearly the Inventory (listed as "Knowledge") and Amends (identified as "Release"). Dad stil refers to 4 and 5 as the Knowledge Steps and 6-7-8-9 as the Release Steps. That is not in the book. If you are familier with the Big Book and its history, it sometimes reads like a lawyer advising how to avoid being sued by AA.
Principles of ALCOHOLIC Recovery to Applied Principles of ADDICTIVE Recovery - I suspect some commercial possibilities were the reason for the change.
Overweight Society" with comment on Applied Principles of AVOIRDUPOIS Recovery and connections between alcoholism and overeating, followed with a food plan that is amazingly similar to Overeater's Anonymous original "Grey Sheet" abstinence food plan. Interesting. From my dad's discussions with me about the One Way Group and the author, Rob someone who took the ideas of the steps and presented them in a way guys from Skid Row in L.A. could grasp, with solid action and tons of writing. Dad was one of many men who had trouble starting his sobriety and credits the deep inveotry of APOAR with his foundation. Rob R. thought he was going to be rich and became something of a somebody in West Coast recovery. For a time.
a more anonymous to work his program. Apparently Mr. R went back into AA as an
anonymous member and reclaimed his recovery. APOAR as a franchise ... I'm not sure where else it was used. Prisons would be reasonable target - APOAR offered hard core, no nonsense Recovery without any veneer.
book. If I could find a way scan the book without destroying the binding, I would. The book (8.5 x 11, green cover, tape binding with staples, 199 pages, multi-lith - which was one step up from mimeograph). I have a scan of a small "Inventory Guide" that was used in conjunction with the APOAR book, but was not part of their materials. I'll send a copy of the scan with this message for Glenn to see if it would be appropriate to post to the group's Files section
with the men I have sponsored over the years. The focus is on a THOROUGH 4th, followed by 5 thru 9 give a foundation for recovery. The ones who have gone through a solid 9th tend to stick around and stay sober. In myh own experiences - which is just one drunk - everyone who has stopped somewhere between 5 and 9 have gone back out.
of Alcoholic Recovery) by Robert Emmett Rack and if it is still being used in Prisons and Institutions? I'm not in "the field" but have looked at what he has written and wonder about its success. -------- A closed mouth gathers no feet. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3701. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: Richard Peabody died drunk? Documentation? From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/11/2006 12:53:00 PM
they seem to add some substance to the probability that he didn't stay sober. Again though in fairness, I've not yet encountered "proof positive." It reminds me somewhat of the assertions regarding Rowland H and whether he died sober or not - I've seen what appears to be credible reporting on both sides. However, in the message where I said that Peabody died drunk I really should have said that Peabody may have died drunk based on anecdotal reports. I doubt strongly that the absence of the word "alcoholism" specifically stated on a death certificate would serve to prove that Peabody died sober. For example, people die of emphysema (such as Ebby T and Bill W) yet the death certificate might show heart failure or something else as opposed to "smoking" as the cause of death. The effects of alcoholism on the body is equally pernicious in causing death as a consequence of high blood pressure, diabetes, cirrhosis and a host of other maladies that would likely not be described as "alcoholism" on a death certificate.
Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mel Barger Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:40 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Richard Peabody died drunk? Documentation? Hi Arthur, I believe the article you referred to was written by Kathy McCarthy, who is the daughter of the late Ray McCarthy, a pioneer in alcoholism treatment. I knew Kathy about 20 years ago but haven't been in touch with her recently.
said something like "it is commonly believed that Peabody died drunk," or something like that. "Commonly believed" is hearsay and not real verification. Nell Wing also thought Peabody drank again, but had no proof of it. I'm suspecting that all this may have been rumor from an early AA such as Jim Burwell, who may or may not have had proof to support the claim. In fairness to Peabody's memory, somebody ought to track this down to determine what was the real cause of Peabody's death, as reported on his death certificate. Unless alcoholism was specifically stated there, we cannot assume he actually went back to drinking.
(melb at accesstoledo.com) Yahoo! Groups Links IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3702. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Orthodox Movement? From: ricktompkins@comcast.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/11/2006 10:41:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Good morning AAHL group, The conduct of some early AA members (alluded to in the last few messages about
the First International Convention) was closer to inciting mob action than about
fostering unity. I have read one letter, sent across the U.S. to AA groups of the time, from a New Jersey AA member who wrote in 1950 against the creation of the General Service Conference. Full of suspicion and accusations, the letter closed with
his name as a member of the Orthodox Group. Did an organized Orthodox "Group" or "Movement" really exist? Actually a small number of AAs remained at constant odds with the 1940s Alcoholic Foundation and
Bill in NYC, but I have found very few records of an actual "Orthodox Group."
Remember that both Bill and Dr. Bob served as AF Trustees and examine one recurring complaint: during the 1940s both Bill and Dr. Bob were rumored to make lots of money in royalties from Big Book sales. Bill presented the meager fiscal record of payments at meetings in Ohio and elsewhere that refuted the charges of profiteering. The idea of Bill and Bob receiving royalties as being "hypocritical and anti-AA" softened up a bit when communication improved. Truth and fact never quieted those early personalities at odds with Bill, but I
believe we are a better Fellowship today because of their opinions. Incidentally, Bill experienced much frustration with the inactions of non-alcoholic AF Trustees, when it came down to their understanding of our developing AA Traditions as well as the concept of an annual World (General) Service Conference. The Conference idea developed from years of a consensus search before the November 1950 pamphlet "Our Third Legacy-Will You Accept It?" drove the final consensus search. To an "Orthodox Movement" of the 1940s I could toss a few more names in that contrarian group but there seems no need to fling around any more of their old
mud... A lot of talk (and, in early AA, written words) is always cheap. Here in Illinois AA Archives are letters written between a few 1940s Illinois members in various cities that are full of slander and sarcasm about other AAs. The correspondence is under the sensitive/confidential classification level and has little relevance to Illinois AA history outside of being an examples of colorful, personal, negative conduct. I have never seen any evidence that Bill's tack was to counter-balance or politick a consensus against an Orthodox Movement. The intent to search for consensus actually developed a relatively strong unity
for our adolescent Fellowship. Bill (and others) gave us an effective example
for our own conduct, to seek diverse views and move forward. Our AA group consciences (right or wrong, correct or in error) remain the driving force of prudent changes or reaffirmation, but fortunately we are a Fellowship that corrects itself! Our Tradition Two, Concept Four, and Concept Five encourage minority views, but emphasize that abiding with an informed group conscience is a much more important activity. There seem to be two types of criticism from AA members: constructive or libelous--we grow with one of them (the former) but our historical survival came with both. Yours in fellowship, Rick T., Illinois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3703. . . . . . . . . . . . Clarence did not write program for 1st Internat''l Conf. From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/10/2006 7:55:00 PM
misquoting. Clarence had nothing to do with the writing of the program for that event. The Stanley brothers were pretty much in charge. Art says "This was all part of Clarence Snyder's claim..." Again Art - CLARENCE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WRITING OF THE PROGRAM - THE FINAL COPY, THE DRAFT COPY OR THE TENTATIVE COPY! Clarence also never claimed that the Goldrick Group was the first to use the TERM Alcoholics Anonymous to describe itself. There is NO evidence or documentation (maybe there is now, like the so-called loaner stamp on the multilith which was never there before) showing where gatherings of members of the Fellowship called these meetings Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. Clarence called the meeting itself an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting after the book of the same name - he wasn't referring to the Fellowship or the book or the foundation but specifically the MEETING. NOWHERE in the archives (unless it was recently manufactured) is there a reference to holding an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting where a bunch of members met to share their experience, strength and hope.
Anonymous was ever called AA prior to Clarence using that term. Nell Wing said that Clarence was the first to use the initials AA as a description of Alcoholics Anonymous. Ergo...Clarence was the founder of AA (not Alcoholics Anonymous but the term AA). Cheers IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3704. . . . . . . . . . . . Two other stories removed from 4th edition
From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/10/2006 4:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Much to my regret two other stories were removed in the 4th edition which I thought were historically significant:
sobriety was May 8, 1941. (She was the first woman to get sober in Akron.)
Abby Golrick (It was at his home where Clarence Snyder started Cleveland's first AA meeting, just one month after the BB was published.) Bob S., Richmond, IN IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3705. . . . . . . . . . . . The Vicious Cycle: the puzzle solved From: jlobdell54 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/10/2006 7:42:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Jared L. solves the problem, also Shakey Mike notes that there were two different editions of EXPERIENCE, STRENGTH, AND HOPE, the first with and the second without "The Vicious Cycle." With other notes by Kim "Skid" Rowe, Sam Sommers, and Maria Hoffman. Plans for the 4th ed. BB were changed and "The Vicious Cycle" was put back into the BB after ESH was already out. The 2nd ed. of ESH corrected what was now an erroneous statement (although it had been made in good faith), and removed "The Vicious Cycle" from this later edition. If you get the most recent versions of the BB and ESH, it all works out correctly now! ______________________________
(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) Jimmy B's Story (The Vicious Cycle) I understand the story had been dropped from the 4th edition and thus incorporated in EXPERIENCE STRENGTH AND HOPE but the Publications Committee decided that one story should be added back to the Fourth Edition (I believe for reasons of length of book) and "The Vicious Cycle" was added back, perhaps because it had been the last one to be omitted. But by that time ESH was in press? ______________________________ From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com) My 1st edition 1st printing of ESandH does have the Vicious Cycle in it. The 2nd editon does not have it. GSO must have removed it after realizing they had made a mistake. Not their first mistake or mine. Shakey "On the way to Baton Rouge" Mike ______________________________ The original problem which was posed: the first edition of ESH contains "The Vicious Cycle" and claims that it was removed from the fourth edition of the BB. But the first printing of the fourth edition of the BB does in fact HAVE "The Vicious Cycle" in its story section. Kim "Skid" Rowe, Sam Sommers, and Maria Hoffman all reported their puzzlement at what they found in their copies of the ESH and BB.
From: "Kimball" (rowek at softcom.net)
My copy of "Experience, Strength and Hope" is a First Edition, First Printing, April 2003.
stories were eliminated from the Big Book. On pg 256 is the story "The Vicious Cycle." My copy of "Alcoholics Anonymous" (Big Book) is a Fourth Edition, First Printing, October 2001. On pg 219 is the story "The Vicious Cycle," reportedly eliminated. Just to make sure I understand your response correctly, are you saying that your page 256 of your copy of "Experience Strength and Hope" does not have "The Vicious Cycle"? Kim "Skid" Rowe - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: "scmws" (scmws at yahoo.com) In my 1st edition 1st printing copy of Experience, Strength and Hope, "The Vicious Cycle" does appear on page 256-267. Page 219-220 is the introduction to the section of stories deleted from the third edition when the fourth edition of the Big Book were published. I agree that as a fellowship we could and should use all the stories in ESandH and the fourth edition of the Big Book more than we do.
Sam Sommers Elkhart Indiana
(jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com) Thanks to the person who brought up this question. Interesting.... I am using my First ed., First Printing of both of these books. Mine does certainly have both stories printed, the BB is on page 219, ESandH is on pg. 256.
first sentence, says, "The collection of stories offers back to the AA fellowship the experience of 56 members whose stories are no longer available in the book Alcoholics Anonymous."
I guess that means I haven't made much use of the new book. OOOPS!
all who can make it there. Enjoy! L and S, Maria Hoffman IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3706. . . . . . . . . . . . Is AAWS tightening up restrictions on reprinting? From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/14/2006 12:21:00 AM
permission to reprint anything they "own." Grapevine articles, writing by Bill etc. He said that AAWS alone from now on will be the sole source of anything related to AA. Anyone hear of this? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3707. . . . . . . . . . . . Culture Alcohol and Society Quarterly newsletter (Brown) From: jlobdell54 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/14/2006 10:39:00 AM
contains occasional articles on AA history, tho' recently more on the Washingtonians), issues are available free in pdf format at www.brown.edu/Facilities/University_Library/libs/hay/collections/kirk/ casq/casq.html
June 16th From: jlobdell54 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/12/2006 5:16:00 PM
will be held at least on Saturday June 16th, 2007, somewhere in the triangle formed by Lebanon PA (2006), Elizabethtown PA (2004) and Summerdale PA (2003 across the Susquehanna from Harrisburg).
attending - - which we hope you are. I hope those who came in any of the past years will be in touch with me soon to let me know if they're coming in 2007 and if they have any suggestions.
who were at the past three Gatherings, we would like to hear from others who would be interested in coming to the 2007 Gathering, to gauge interest. ______________________________
From: "Al Welch" welch@a-1associates.com (welch at a-1associates.com)
History and Archives Gathering" in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, last Saturday (June 24, 2006). The event was really great.
participated in some of the presentations.
experiences with Clarence Snyder. It was a warm and genuine expression of history.
in his topic of writing about AA history. He and I had exchanged some "shaggy dog" stories over the last Download 13.83 Mb. Share with your friends:
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