Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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There is no Johnstone P listed on that site. Tommy H in Baton Rouge [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3654. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: "You have to give it away..." From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/25/2006 10:26:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII As a possible item of interest on the give it away/want to keep it paradox, the Tradition 5 essay in the 12and12 (published 1953) states the following:
great paradox of A.A. that we know we can seldom keep the precious gift of sobriety unless we give it away. If a group of doctors possessed a cancer cure, they might be conscience-stricken if they failed their mission through self-seeking. Yet such a failure wouldn't jeopardize their personal survival. for us, if we neglect those who are still sick, there is unremitting danger to our own lives and sanity. Under these compulsions of self-preservation, duty, and love, it is not strange that our Society has concluded that it has but one high mission - to carry the A.A. message to those who don't know there is a way out."
Arthur
++++Message 3655. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Richard Peabody died drunk? Documentation? From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/25/2006 10:03:00 AM
Katherine McCarthy, Ph.D. Journal of Studies on Alcohol, Vol.45, No.1, 1984.
success at remaining sober. A common opinion is that Peabody died intoxicated, although the evidence is not conclusive. Samuel Crocker, who had once shared an office with Peabody, told Faye R. that he was intoxicated at the time of his death. The personal copy of Peabody's book belonging to Bill Wilson (one of the founders of A.A.) now in the A.A. Archives, contains the following inscription; "Dr. Peabody was as far as is known the first authority to state, "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic," and he proved it by returning to drinking and by dying of alcoholism - proving to us that the condition is uncurable." This copy was originally owned by Rosa Burwell of Philadelphia. Some early A.A. members share the opinion that Peabody died intoxicated. The published sources contradict each other. Wister quoted Peabody's second wife to the effect that he died of pneumonia. The editors of Scribner's magazine, which published an article of his posthumously, claimed that he died of a heart attack. Mrs. Crosby did not say." Later in the paper: "Although Peabody's method was widely practiced for about two decades, little is known of its overall therapeutic success, and an accurate guess is impossible at this date. Marty Mann concluded that Peabody and his therapists "accomplished a heroic work during the 1930's, when little else was being done for alcoholics" and that the method "was
effective with a considerable number"' of patients. It is known that a few remained abstinent and professionally active in the field of alcoholism. Others who failed at the Peabody method were known to have joined A.A. in its early years, but it is impossible to determine how many remained quietly sober without joining A.A. or professional groups. The fact that several of the Peabody method's major practitioners - apparently including the founder - were not able to maintain their sobriety, however, does not bode well for other patients with whom contact was lost."
drunk Most of what I've seen is qualified as anecdotal reports. Cheers Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mel Barger Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:00 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Richard Peabody died drunk? Documentation?
died drunk? Mel Barger melb@accesstoledo.com (melb at accesstoledo.com) _________________________________________ Original Message from: "ArtSheehan" Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] "Take what you need and leave the rest"
1931
> book "The Common Sense of Drinking" by Richard Peabody. It > strengthened the concept of alcoholism as an illness and contained the > statement "Half measures are to no avail." The book was a prominent > reference source in the early AA Fellowship. Peabody died drunk so the > catchphrase did not appear to serve him very well. Yahoo! Groups Links IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3656. . . . . . . . . . . . Dartmoor Bill died Tuesday, 53 years sober
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/28/2006 3:22:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII "Dartmoor Bill", who died on Tuesday aged 85, was the longest-sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous in Britain and Europe, having not touched a drink for the past 53 years. His story is available in an article in the online version of the widely read British newspaper, the Telegraph:
ews/2006/08/\ 26/db2601.xml [9] This was sent in by Ernie Kurtz. The newspaper article contains a good deal of information about the beginnings of AA in Britain.
March 31 1947 at the Dorchester Hotel in London. By 1953 there were only four in the capital (today there are more than 700). Dartmoor Bill found one in Chandos Street, behind the Edgware Road. He immersed himself in AA's '12 Steps', and remained sober. By the 1960s he was a husband and father, making a living as a street-trader; he also trained as an electrician and found stage-lighting work around the West End theatres." "Dartmoor Bill reached his half-century of sobriety in May 2003, and hundreds of AA members celebrated with him at a party given by his wife Eunice at a church hall in Chelsea. Despite the onset of asbestosis, he spoke loud and clear for half an hour, regaling the company with his experience and sense of hope, insisting: 'If you don't take the first drink, you can't get drunk.'" Posted by the moderator [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3657. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Johnstone P.''s story, "You have to give it away..." From: Mel Barger . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/27/2006 8:30:00 AM
I'd heard that Johnstone Parr had passed on. I think he was a professor at Kent State University. The Social Security Death Index lists a Johnstone Parr as born on May 5, 1911 and passing away on May 30, 1991. The Social Security number was 416 34 6270, and it had been issued in Alabama. Place of death was not shown. This could be the same Johnstone Parr, given the unusual first name. Or it could be a coincidence. I always thought it was a shame to remove his fine story from the Big Book after the second edition. But the four paradoxes still survive in AA lore and are sometimes quoted. Mel Barger melb@accesstoledo.com (melb at accesstoledo.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3658. . . . . . . . . . . . How to identify 1st printing 1st edition Big Books From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/25/2006 10:37:00 AM
(Indiana) Intergroup what I believed was a first printing, first edition Big Book for display in their office. For many years I thought the only large Big Book was the first printing of the first edition, but during a visit to the Akron Inter-group Archives I learned that several of those first edition printings were also of the large variety. After learning this I was, of course, concerned as to whether my gift was really the first printing, and not a later printing of first edition. Recently, Bruce C, from Muncie sent me the following information: 1st Edition, 1st Printing. Page 154, line 29 has "aberrations" misspelled. Page 234, line 27 repeats line 26. Page 391, the story Lone Endeavor is only in this printing.
the second printing of the first edition and "The Lone Endeavor" story was also exclusive thereby.
I had the opportunity to check this out . The suspense was terrific! I walked into the office, put on the white glove and breathtakingly opened the Big Book. Happy-happy news: IT WAS authentic !
printing. In Dr. Bob's Nightmare on page 192 the second line states " . . . nearly four years have passed."
years have passed."
the first edition printings, all of the second edition printings, and up till, I think, the ninth printing of the third edition. So, this information was further evidence in yesterday's quest!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3659. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Johnstone P.''s story, "You have to give it away..." From: Jay Lawyer . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/28/2006 9:47:00 PM
about mornings in the quiet time during the early days of the fellowship.
keep it.' Further on it talks about an early pamphlet and a later book from Rev. Samuel Shoemaker (pg 72-73 etc...) 'about giving it away to keep it.'
looonnnnggggg time. Jay IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3660. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Johnstone P.''s story, "You have to give it away..." From: Robt Woodson . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/28/2006 9:59:00 PM
John Stone Parr, Author of "The Professor and the Paradox" was a Professor at nearby Kent State University and a member of the Cuyahoga Falls "Pilgrim" Group of Alcoholics Anonymous. Woody in Akron, Ohio
Can someone tell me whatever happened to Johnstone P. from Ohio? His story appeared in the second edition of the Big Book and was missing thereafter. I often hear people quote him at meetings. Mostly they only use one of his four quotes, the one that states, "You have to give it away if you want to keep it." Kilroy W. 4021 Club Philadelphia PA
From: DudleyDobinson@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/28/2006 4:30:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII **With a note from Glenn C. on "spiritual experience"** Hi Bob Thanks for your insight on the differences between the first and later printings of the Big Book. I have probably One of the few copies of "Big Red" in Ireland and will almost certainly donate it some time in the near future. When and to whom is my current dilemma. Perhaps the most important change made to the First printing which you did not mention was the change in the Twelfth step from "experience" to "awakening" and the addition of an appendix on the subject added in the Second printing.
had his spiritual experience before the steps were written. Also some members thought they could not recover if they did not that type of experience. In fellowship - Dudley D. __________________________________ Note from the moderator: There were actually three separate experiences that Bill W. had during the period when he was getting sober:
don't you choose your own conception of God?" Bill W. says that the "scales fell ... from my eyes." (Big Book p. 12) Most Americans at that time read from the Bible regularly or heard it read from in church. They would have immediately recognized this as a reference to the Apostle Paul's conversion experience on the Road to Damascus in Acts 9:18. That means that Bill W. is telling us here, "this was my conversion experience." He became aware of "the real significance" of his awareness of the divine presence at Westminster Cathedral. Living in continual "God consciousness" or "awareness of the divine presence" was the way the most important Protestant preachers and theologians of the 1920's and 1930's described the life of those who were among the saved. Bill W. also noted (p. 10) that his beloved grandfather had pointed out that one could have the same sense of awe and wonder at the divine presence while looking up at the starry sky at night -- with the advantage that the preachers couldn't tell you how to interpret that experience! This understanding of what is meant by "God consciousness" is referred to many times in the Big Book. One of the two greatest Protestant theologians of that period, Rudolf Otto, talked about this kind of spiritual experience in his book "The Idea of the Holy," which went through printing after printing. The original German of the book also went through printing after printing: "Das Heilige: ueber das Irrationale in der Idee des gottlichen und sein Verhaeltnis zum Rationalen." This could be useful to German AA members trying to understand what the English version of the Big Book means by the words "spiritual" and "spiritual experience," because the original German of Otto's book explains it in terms that are part of the German cultural heritage.
the rescue mission run by Father Sam Shoemaker's Calvary Church, drunk out of his mind ("Pass It On, pp. 116-119). He disrupted the meeting, and at one point stood up and gave a long, confused drunken speech. No one afterward could quite remember what he had said, except that it was disruptive and embarrassing. But Ebby thought that he remembered that during Bill's speech, he had "given his life to God." So there are some people in AA who count that as a conversion experience. He was totally drunk however, and continued to drink for another two or three days, so I do not in fact know any pastor in the evangelical tradition who would regard anything said by an obnoxious and disruptive drunk who broke into a revival meeting, and started ranting, as a genuine conversion. (3) The ecstatic vision of the great white light which Bill had in Towns Hospital in December 1934, where he felt as though he was standing on a mighty mountain peak where the wind of the spirit blew (see "Pass It On, p. 121, and "AA Comes of Age, p. 63).
account in the Big Book (p. 14). But he did say that this happened when he realized that "I must turn in all things to the Father of Light who presides over us all," where the light motif occurs (it is a reference to the epistle of James 1:17).
the Big Book and early AA people in general stressed as the primary meaning of "spiritual experience" or "spiritual awareness." It might come slowly instead of quickly, but it meant learning to practice the presence of God in our everyday lives at all times, being aware of his love and compassion and willingness to help, and letting that guide all our daily decisions. And it meant learning to respect and appreciate the holy and sacred dimension of reality in all the ways in which it was revealed to us: in church and synagogue and mosque and temple, in the the spirit of the tables (which is the Holy Spirit at work), and in our wonder and awe at the glories of nature: the sky, the trees, the scent of Spring flowers, the sound of birds. The Song of the Seraphim in Isaiah 6:3 is repeated in countless Jewish and Christian liturgies: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory." The Cherubic Anthem which is the centerpiece of the Eastern Orthodox liturgy makes it clear that our primary duty as human beings down here on earth in this material realm, is to join in with the holy angels in singing this uncreasing hymn.
part of the U.S. does not believe in a personal God, but they too sing, to the four corners of the compass, a hymn to the Manitou, the holiness and glory of the sacred presence which shines forth in all the world of nature. Those who sing this hymn, in any of its forms, and know what they are singing to, have understood the primary meaning of "spiritual experience" and "spiritual awakening" in the twelve step program.
History
From: chesbayman56 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/1/2006 11:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Significant September Dates in A.A. History Sept 1930 - Bill wrote 4th (last) promise in family Bible to quit drinking. Sept 1939 - group started by Earl T in Chicago. Sept 1940 - AA group started in Toledo by Duke P and others. Sept 1940 - Journal of Nervous and Mental Diseases gives Big Book unfavorable review. Sept 1946 - Bill and Dr. Bob both publicly endorsed National Committee Education Alcoholism founded by Marty M. Sept 1946 - 1st A.A. group in Mexico. Sept 1948 - Bob writes article for Grapevine on AA "Fundamentals - In Retrospect". Sept 1949 - 1st issue of Grapevine published in "pocketbook" size. Sept 1, 1939 - 1st AA group founded in Chicago. Sept 11, 2001 - 30 Vesey St, New York. Location of AA's first office is destroyed during the World Trade Center attack. Sept 12, 1942 - U.S. Assist. Surgeon General Kolb speaks at dinner for Bill and Dr Bob. Sept 13, 1937 - Florence R, 1st female in AA in NY. Sept 13, 1941 - WHJP in Jacksonville, FL airs Spotlight on AA. Sept 17, 1954 - Bill D, AA #3 dies. Sept 18, 1947 - Dallas Central Office opens its doors. Sept 19, 1965 - The Saturday Evening Post publishes article "Alcoholics Can Be Cured - Despite AA" Sept 19, 1975 - Jack Alexander, author of original Saturday Evening Post article, dies. Sept 21, 1938 - Bill W and Hank P form Works Publishing Co. Sept 24, 1940 - Bill 12th steps Bobbie V, who later replaced Ruth Hock as his secretary in NY. Sept 30, 1939 - article in Liberty magazine, "Alcoholics and God" by Morris Markey. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3663. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Richard Peabody died drunk? Documentation? From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/2/2006 10:29:00 AM
> > Hi Mel > > > EARLY ALCOHOLISM TREATMENT: THE EMMANUEL MOVEMENT and RICHARD PEABODY > Katherine McCarthy, Ph.D. > Journal of Studies on Alcohol, Vol.45, No.1, 1984. > > http://www.aabibliography.com/historyofaa/reco1.htm > I have no specific information about Peabody, but a couple of remarks on the context.
McCarthy's article says that: " Samuel Crocker, > who had once shared an office with Peabody, told Faye R. that he was > intoxicated at the time of his death.
> second wife to the effect that he died of pneumonia. Irving Fisher, a prominent advocate of prohibition, devoted much of his book Prohibition At Its Worst (written 1926, I believe, and revised later) to debates about the
medical value of alcohol. The issues then were very different from the present-day claims about alcohol's value. For example, a physician by the name of Samuel Lambert made the claim, based on what appeared to be good evidence, that pneumonia patients had a lower mortality rate when given alcohol. In the days before antibiotics, the importance of that fact, if it was a Download 13.83 Mb. Share with your friends:
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