Cain versus Abel and the show's mythology



Download 481.94 Kb.
Page10/10
Date23.04.2018
Size481.94 Kb.
1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10
Re: Cain versus Abel and the show's mythology (spoilers for past episode

by donilou2 2 days ago (Thu Dec 13 2007 08:03:54)

Ignore this User | Report Abuse Reply

Every time I visit this thread I come away with so much to think about. Snowleopard, you've been teaching myself, as well as others, a whole heck of a lot I never thought I'd get from a genre show such as this one.The list of books I need to re-read is longer than my arm now, and I won't have time to even start until after the holidays!


Regarding the original script, it's on the S1 DVD in the features on D-6. Kripke himself apologises profusely for it,but it's an interesting read and shows how much the characters evolved before we even got to see them.
Illegitimati non carborundum
Re: Cain versus Abel and the show's mythology (spoilers for past episode

by thesnowleopard 1 day ago (Fri Dec 14 2007 03:36:22)

Edit Reply

Okay, apologies again. That was a spoiler and the scene where Sam gives the amulet to Dean occurs in tonight's (last night's) episode. One thing I hadn't thought of before was that Bobby is a guy who deals in magical artifacts, designs, spells, etc. So, there's bound to be a lot more to that amulet than just sentimental value. And I'm not too sure that the amulet went to the "wrong" recipient. Could be Bobby had Dean in mind somehow for the amulet all along, but couldn't say that directly to Sam at the time.


Concerning the two Celtic gods...I've always been a tad skeptical of the evidence for rampant Celtic sacrifice, since most of it comes from the Aztecs of the Ancient World--I mean, the Romans. However, I did like that there was no attempt to make these two demons or anything less than actual gods. Also, did you catch that flash in the cellar? They looked decidedly Grendel-like. I'm wondering if the latter was what the writers were going for.
As far as meadowsweet--it may be associated with human sacrifice, but holly and ivy are hardly "innocently" Christian. The Holly and the Ivy may well be one of the earlier Christian carols and has a lot of pagan symbology in it. Interesting that the boys killed the gods with evergreen. Not sure where that one came from. Evergreen is important to the Celts and Norse (especially Yew, because Yew trees can be thousands of years old), but why it would kill two Celtic gods, I'm not sure.
The three things in the bowl sounds like a take on the "triple sacrifice" in ancient Celtic religion. IndoEuropean cultures are all obsessed with the number three as having sacred significance--the triple-faced supreme god of Hinduism, the Holy Trinity, the triple sacrifice of bludgeoning, stabbing and throat-cutting in Celtic religion. That sort of thing.


http://www.geocities.com/rpcv.geo/other.html

Re: Cain versus Abel and the show's mythology (spoilers for past episode

by donilou2 1 day ago (Fri Dec 14 2007 08:21:44)

Ignore this User | Report Abuse Reply


but why it would kill two Celtic gods, I'm not sure.

Well obviously, it was so the Winchesters could make good use of the Christmas tree, and that's about all. [[laugh]]

Seriously though, I was waiting for them to re-animate and start calling the movers.Gods shouldn't be that easy to dispatch, just like in "Tall Tales".

I'm more than willing to fan-wave the whole thing though just to enjoy the episode. Perhaps I'm living in ignorant bliss, but sometimes I think we dissect the show until all the pleasure is gone.

Illegitimati non carborundum
Re: Cain versus Abel and the show's mythology (spoilers for past episode

by gunznammo2 1 day ago (Fri Dec 14 2007 13:49:22)

Ignore this User | Report Abuse Reply

It's true that over-analyzing may take the pleasure

outta the basic premise of ANY show. However, I was

initially attracted to this show because of the brother's

relationship (still am, for that matter) with the scary

stuff coming in second. Both of these aspects have been

covered here very well. Where else can you find such

an in-depth breakdown of the most wonderful show in the world. [[cool]]

It certainly shows that 'Supernatural'has plenty of substance.

And I noticed THAT from the very first episode. WHAT A SHOW !!!!!!!!!

This thread sure has been one helluva ride. I've copied and pasted

it onto 'Word' to read at my leisure in one fell swoop.


Sam: 'What'd you call me a bitch for?'

Devoted SaltGunner 4 Life

Supernatural Disciple
Re: Cain versus Abel and the show's mythology (spoilers for past episode

by thesnowleopard 20 hours ago (Sat Dec 15 2007 05:11:08)

Edit Reply

Well obviously, it was so the Winchesters could make good use of the Christmas tree, and that's about all. [ [[laugh]] ]

Seriously though, I was waiting for them to re-animate and start calling the movers.Gods shouldn't be that easy to dispatch, just like in "Tall Tales".

I'm more than willing to fan-wave the whole thing though just to enjoy the episode. Perhaps I'm living in ignorant bliss, but sometimes I think we dissect the show until all the pleasure is gone.


Now, come on, fanwank is a fun and venerable tradition going back at least to the days of Star Trek. The original Star Trek. And if you think this is bad, you should hear PhD students yakking about their thesis topics after a few hits of mulled of wine at the annual Christmas party.


Besides, part of the fun is doing what Marvel used to call "winning the noprize" which is where you come up with plausible reasons why the characters did something stupid. For example, I'd argue that the "gods" weren't actually gods, but in fact monsters who used to masquerade as gods. Oh, sure, they claimed that they were and Sam and Dean went in assuming that they were, but who's going to argue with a host who's carving you up like a Christmas turkey, eh?
But aside from being immortal and pretty tough to kill (unless you knew exactly how to do it), they showed no signs of divinity whatsoever. Gods represent some kind of divine principle (growth and renewal for the scarecrow, divine justice for the Trickster and the "angel" that Dean saw) and give something in return for the expected sacrifice, if they expect a sacrifice. So, the scarecrow gave the townspeople good crops. The Trickster and the angel didn't expect anything--they were just balancing the scales on their own. But then, tricksters are hunter-gatherer gods and angels are monotheistic and neither type of culture is big on sacrifice.
The couple showed nothing like that. People probably used to make sacrifices to them for the same reason you give a dragon a virgin every year in fantasy stories. It wasn't in reverence, but to keep them from randomly killing their way across the countryside. I bet the bit about a hundred boys a year lining up to be sacrificed was just a tad nostalgic, too. Somebody would have whacked them two millennia ago if that were true. Hunters of supernatural beasties go back before humans were humans.
So, right after Dean got coldcocked and the flashlight showed their unhuman faces under the skin to Sam, I got all perky, because suddenly I realized we'd switched from the Companions of St. Nicholas (just as well; some of them are really politically incorrect) to Beowulf, specifically Grendel and his mom. Or in the case of this version--Mr. and Mrs. Grendel. So, I was cool with that.
I also didn't think they were overly goofy. I thought they were quite creepy, in fact.

http://www.geocities.com/rpcv.geo/other.html


Re: Cain versus Abel and the show's mythology (spoilers for past episode

by donilou2 16 hours ago (Sat Dec 15 2007 08:22:54)

Ignore this User | Report Abuse Reply

You see what you've done Snowleopard- you've acutally forced me to think and its way too early on a Saturday morning for that! Now I have no choice but to watch it again, with your ideas firmly planted in my misfiring brain so I can see what you saw the first time around.

And yes, because its early, I will admit to fanwanking the original Star Trek and all its offspring.

I agree, the couple were totally creepy, all the moreso because they fit into their neighbourhoods so well and no-one suspected them.


Illegitimati non carborundum
Re: Cain versus Abel and the show's mythology (spoilers for past episode

by thesnowleopard 43 minutes ago (Sun Dec 16 2007 00:28:39)

Edit Reply

You see what you've done Snowleopard- you've acutally forced me to think and its way too early on a Saturday morning for that! Now I have no choice but to watch it again, with your ideas firmly planted in my misfiring brain so I can see what you saw the first time around.


LOL! Yep, that's one of the things that I like about a show, that I can find new stuff about it every time I watch. One-time-watch shows are fun, but I don't buy them in DVD.


To be honest, I'd rather watch something I love five times than something crappy once. Life's too short.

And yes, because its early, I will admit to fanwanking the original Star Trek and all its offspring.


[snicker] My whole family are Trekkies. I will admit, though, that I found Voyager annoying and could not get into Enterprise at all. Nor is this upcoming Academy film (God, they're finally doing it--ick) doing much for me, either.


Did you hear that they moved the sets to Vancouver, though? Means that the next series ('cause you know there will be one) will be filmed in Canada. Seems only appropriate, what with Shatner and Doohan both being Canucks.

I agree, the couple were totally creepy, all the moreso because they fit into their neighbourhoods so well and no-one suspected them.


I liked the hypocrisy theme. You know these folks probably would have been front and center with torches if the neighborhood wanted to burn a Wiccan, but they were engaged in these horrible practices underneath it all. But at the same time, the two brothers (one of whom loathes Christmas and the other who isn't quite sure what it's all about, but is curious) are able to make some real Christmas spirit at the end in the spirit of The Little Drummer Boy. With a little help from some seriously spiked eggnog, of course.


I found the cellar scene, and the bit where her face changes and she says, "I loved that tree" all monotone, especially disturbing. The reveals of their true faces were very well done.

http://www.geocities.com/rpcv.geo/other.html

Share with your friends:
1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10


The database is protected by copyright ©ininet.org 2019
send message

    Main page