Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3601. . . . . . . . . . . . Herbert Wallace From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/26/2006 12:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I recently heard that there was a PBS television show called History Detectives airing a show about a letter from Bill Wilson to a Herbert Wallace of Maryland thanking him for his staunch support of AA. It was written in 1942 and is on Alcoholic Foundation letterhead. I haven't seen the show but they are repeated now and again.
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/25/2006 11:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Could that have been Anne Craw of Niles, OH? --- John Lee > The Rewards are a personal reworking of the 9th step > promises. Ann Croft of Akron composed the 12 > Rewards. She was the first woman in Akron AA to stay > sober. Ann is referenced twice in Doctor Bob and > the Good Oldtimers. > Ann wrote the Rewards to indicate how some of the > Promises had come true in her life. Ann never > intended that the Rewards would come true generally > for members of the Fellowship. We may not get back > the love and understanding of our families, for > instance. > love+service > john lee > member
> pittsburgh > > robin_foote > Hi AA history lovers, > > I recently heard the following on a track recorded > by Searcy W. I have heard > various forms of this over the years and find it > follows on from the > 'promises'. > > I have seen something similar in the Big Book but > cannot find it. > > Was Searcy the originator or is it from another > source? Anyone know? > > THE TWELVE REWARDS OF SOBRIETY > > By Searcy W., 55 years sober as at 2001 aged 90. > > o Faith instead of despair. > > o Courage instead of fear. > > o Hope instead of desperation. > > o Peace of mind instead of confusion. > > o Real friendships instead of loneliness. > > o Self-respect instead of self-contempt. > > o Self-confidence instead of helplessness. > > o A clean conscious instead of a sense of guilt. > > o The respect of others instead of their pity and > contempt. > > o A clean pattern of living instead of a hopeless > existence. > > o The love and understanding of our families instead > of their doubts and > fears.
> > o The freedom of a happy life instead of the bondage > of an alcoholic > obsession. > > A great source of AA tracks in MP3 format is at > http://www.xa-speakers.org/ > located in Iceland with over 800 tracks including AA > Founders. Perfect for > my iPod. > > Robin F. > > Caloundra, Australia. > > Page 55 of the Big Book awoke my spirit. > > www.BriefTSF.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new > Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > >
++++Message 3603. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: 90 meetings in 90 days From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/25/2006 8:02:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The story about Cleveland and the Salvation Army is a fabrication. Evangelical Deaconess Hospital was the first hospital they worked with and they were in no way affiliated other than an agreement with the hospital to allow the alcoholics certain privacy and visiting rights from sponsors and other AA members. Post Shaker Sanitarium (Larry Jewell was there) and Cleveland Clinic as well as others who had worked out arrangements with the Cleveland Central Committee Hospital Committee (and Clarence)there was NO affiliation. There were hospital rules developed and as long as the hospital was open to allowing those rules..... people were brought there.
in having AA meetings brought to their facilities later on. The first AA meeting held in a Salvation Army facility was in Cleveland. There are no records by either the Hospital Committee, the Central Committee or notice in the Central Bulletin relating to any deal with the Salvation Army about hospitalizing alcoholics made or offered by AA. The records kept by the Cenrtal Committee were rather complete and thorough. This is just another way that disinformation gets passed along as fact.
reference to the series of articles written by Elrick Davis and not the single article/sermon "Mr. X. and Alcoholics Anonymous" by Dillworth Lupton. --- Toto24522@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/18/06 10:09:27 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > serenityodaat@yahoo.se writes: > ><< The saying "90 meetings in 90 days" is pretty > common > in AA in Sweden. I recall that i once heard on a > speaker tape that this saying was "invented" > Cleveland AA in the 50's where they had some sort > of > "contract" with the Salvation army, that if they > took > drunks to 90 meetings the Salvation army would let > the > person stay at the shelter for 90 days. > Does anyone have any info around this? > Love Anders > >
> > http://communities.msn.com/A12StepRecoveryDiner/thoughtsonavisittoakron.msnw > > As told by Chief Blackhawk (Detroit, 40 years in > October, > 1998), sitting on the front porch of Dr. Bob's house > at > 855 Ardmore in Akron, Ohio to Floyd H. of Spring, > Texas. > > ORGANIZATIONS > > There are vital reasons that we are not allied with > any sects, denominations, politics, organizations, > or
> institutions. You want to know what they are? > > The Cleveland group's experience with an outside > organization taught us about the danger of trying > that.
> Get in with another organization, they bring their > values and opinions and they seldom are what we know > works in helping drunks. When the Clarence Snyder > (Home Brewmeister) group formed in Cleveland, an > article > ran in the Cleveland newspaper, The Plain Dealer. > > The group was flooded with requests for help, and > many > were low-bottoms who needed 3-5 days of > hospitalization. > After being turned down by all the local hospitals > and > after helping the son of a person associated with > the > Salvation Army, that organization told Clarence > they'd > make some beds available for alcoholics. In > accepting > their aid, two things happened. First, AA became > allied > with an outside organization; next, they fell under > that > organization's philosophy about recovering from > alcoholism > and compromised what the alcoholics knew really > worked. > > In order to get the beds, the AA's violated their > own > procedures. I asked: So what was that > organization's > philosophy that went against what AA's had been > doing? > They answered: The Cleveland Salvation Army had a > policy > of limiting bed space for anyone to a total of three > months. Their motive was noble: We'll help you > down-and-out's to get by until you get a job and a > place > of your own, but to motivate you, weire putting a > time > limit on our assistance -- you have three months, > max. > Now, for the alkies coming in, they told them the > same > thing but added, You also have to visit with a > recovered > alcoholic daily; that is, you have to meet with them > 90 > times in 90 days, and we're gonna check to make sure > you do. Miss a meeting and you have no bed. You're > back
> on the streets. So instead of taking the drunks > through > in 3 or 4 hours the way we always did it, or a > matter
> of days at the most, we're now into this 90-in-90 > plan.
> > I said: So the Cleveland Salvation Army introduced > this > thing we hear so often today -- ˜Go to 90 meetings > in > 90 days? > > They said, Exactly. And the early Cleveland AA's, > desperate to get beds they thought they had to have, > compromised their approach to working the steps > quickly. But to their great credit, the Cleveland > AA's
> keep meticulous records with Clarence's insistence) > and their stats revealed that no one gained any > long-term sobriety using that plan. So Cleveland > separated itself from the Salvation Army with a > valuable lesson: stick to the methods proven > successful -- alkies taking alkies through the steps > and doing it pronto. After Cleveland got back to > doing that instead of the 90-in-90-Salvation-Army > plan, > the AA's got a 93% success rate over the next > several > decades. > >
> > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3604. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: Inacuracies in the Lois Wilson Book From: kilroy@ceoexpress.com> . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/18/2006 11:43:00 PM
neice of Jimmy B. and not the sister of Fitz M. The confusion came about due to the photo that I have of the gravesites and the fact that I was standing next to the grave of Fitz's sister during the graveyard talk part of the workshop...SORRY!!!
ask people to read the Big Book? From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/24/2006 10:39:00 PM
another) would be that earliest AA likely asked people to read the Big Book the same way most people read most other books - start with the first written page and proceed to the last written page. But it is not beyond AA members, especially contemporary AA members, to take something as simple as that and add a host of esoteric and endearing variations to it.
reading the stories (in more than "There Is A Solution). Here's some information that might be of interest regarding the basic text and personal stories. Quite often members will trumpet the "basic text" of the Big Book and give short-shrift to the personal stories. The "basic text" very much suggests otherwise.
gone much farther with the text of the book when it was evident that something more was needed. There would have to be a story or case history section. We would have to produce evidence in the form of living proof, written testimonials of our membership itself. It was felt also that the story section could identify us with the distant reader in a way that the text itself might not." In going through the Big Book, there are the following citations regarding the personal stories with page number references for the 4th and 1st editions (in parentheses). The page numbers differ because in the 1st edition "The Doctor's Opinion" started as page 1 as opposed to "Bill's Story." Bill W altered the page numbering in 1955 when the 2nd edition was published. Nobody really knows why Bill did this but there has been some very creative speculation on the matter. References to the personal stories in the Big Book "basic text" are as
follows: Page 29 "There Is A Solution" (pages 39-40 in the 1st edition): Further on, clear-cut directions are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two ("forty-three" in the 3rd edition, "three dozen" in the 2nd edition and "more than a score" in the 1st edition *) personal experiences. Each individual, in the personal stories, describes in his own language and from his own point of view the way he established his relationship with God. These give a fair cross section of our membership and a clear-cut idea of what has actually happened in their lives. (* my note: a "score" equals 20).
taste. Our hope is that many alcoholic men and women, desperately in need, will see these pages, and we believe that it is only by fully disclosing ourselves and our problems that they will be persuaded to say, "Yes, I am one of them too; I must have this thing." Page 50 "We Agnostics" (page 62 in the 1st edition): In our personal stories you will find a wide variation in the way each teller approaches and conceives of the Power which is greater than himself. Whether we agree with a particular approach or conception seems to make little difference. Experience has taught us that these are matters about which, for our purpose, we need not be worried. They are questions for each individual to settle for himself. On one proposition, however, these men and women are strikingly agreed. Every one of them has gained access to, and believes in, a Power greater than himself. This Power has in each case accomplished the miraculous, the humanly impossible. As a celebrated American statesman put it, "Let's look at the record."
an atheist. His story is so interesting that some of it should be told now. His change of heart was dramatic, convincing, and moving.
happened, and what we are like now (*). If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps. (my note: contrary to popular belief this was not posited to be the format for a speaker meeting - it simply called attention to the personal stories in the book).
chances
are he would. Show him your copy of this book and tell him what you have found out about alcoholism. Show him that as alcoholics, the writers of the book understand. Tell him some of the interesting stories you have read. If you think he will be shy of a spiritual remedy, ask him to look at the chapter on alcoholism. Then perhaps he will be interested enough to continue. Cheers Arthur
++++Message 3606. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Herbert Wallace From: Mel Barger . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2006 5:19:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Mitch, Herb Wallace was an export lawyer in New York. The letter in question was actually a letter of condolence to Herb's wife, as Herb had just passed on. He appears to have been an Oxford Grouper who remained on good terms with Bill and the other alcoholics who had left that fellowship. I believe Herb's grandson found the letter and must have submitted it to History Detectives. The show is scheduled to appear here in Toledo at 9 p.m. Monday, July 31st. It may be on different times in other places. I was interviewed for the program, though not as an AA member. (I checked with GSO prior to accepting the assignment.) The interviewer was Gwen Wright, who appears regularly on this show. Much of the interview is in front of Bill's former home at 182 Clinton Street in Brooklyn. It will probably be obvious to AA members that I'm in the fellowship, but I was told that this was okay if I wasn't identified as a member. I didn't know anything about History Detectives until this came up and I've seen only two programs. But it is an interesting show and brings in a lot of good history with it. They do three segments during the hour, and this one is titled "Alcoholics Anonymous Letter." I hope our History Lovers will watch it and send me their comments. Mel Barger melb@accesstoledo.com ~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@accesst ~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@accesstoledo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitchell K." To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Herbert Wallace >I recently heard that there was a PBS television show called History > Detectives airing a show about a letter from Bill Wilson to a Herbert > Wallace of Maryland thanking him for his staunch support of AA. It was > written in 1942 and is on Alcoholic Foundation letterhead. I haven't > seen the show but they are repeated now and again. > > Anyone have any information on Mr Wallace? > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com > 12:09:27 AM ET - 7/27/2006 >
From: Trysh Travis . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/28/2006 10:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I write in hopes that history lovers will be able to help me clarify the publication history of several "commonplace books"-- short volumes of quotations, aphorisms, etc. compiled for the edification of the editor and the readers. I encountered several of these while working in the Kirk Collection on Alcoholism and Alcoholics Anonymous at Brown University, and would like to know more about their origins, specifically who compiled them, and when and where they were originally published.
-- *Handles for Sobriety* -- *Handles and Hodge-Podge* -- *Stinkin' Thinkin' (Thoughts For)* Regarding *Grateful Thoughts Favorites,* I spoke to the current publisher, Dan S., and he told me that the book was the work of Mose Y., of Fredericksburgh, OH, but that he did not know the original publication date. The edition I saw looked like it was from the mid- to late-1980s.
Star Press in Drain, Ore., told me that they were the work of Walter S., the press's founder, but again did not know the original publication dates. The editions I saw looked like they were from the early-1990s. I would like to resolve these accounts of authorship with the ones offered in Charles Bishop and Bill Pittman's *To Be Continued,* which lists the two *Handles* volumes as the work of the Cleveland Central Committee, and to get a ballpark figure of when they were first published and when the reprinting of them began. I will be grateful for any information. Thanks in advance, Trysh Travis IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3608. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: In what order did earliest AA ask people to read the Big Book? From: Mel Barger . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2006 9:28:00 AM
My experience may shed some light on this "reading order" thing. At age 23, living in Ventura, Calif., I went to my first AA meeting, in nearby Santa Paula, in October, 1948. The second member I met was Carl Scott, one of the first 2,000 AA members, who had moved out to Ventura from Akron. A few minutes later, I met his son-in-law, Eddie McCann, one of the first 200 members, also from Akron. But the dynamo in the group was Carl's wife Nellie, not an alcoholic but probably one of the most enthusiastic advocates of the program I've ever seen. She insisted on giving me the Big Book to read and also urged me to read the personal stories first. I believe today that this reflected a general view in Akron, because this couple had lived and breathed with all the founders of the program there. I took her advice and did read the personal stories before going back to the first part of the book. Of course I realized that Bill's Story was a personal story and read that right away. It took me another 18 months before I managed to establish what I hope will turn out to be lifelong sobriety. But I do have fond memories and considerable gratitude for the help and advice Carl and Nellie gave me, and I think this gave me good information that I finally put to use when I was really ready. Today, of course, we have thousands of personal stories on the AA Grapevine Digital Archive and tapes from around the world. It's always good to keep on reading them no matter how long one has been sober. Mel Barger
(melb at accesstoledo.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3609. . . . . . . . . . . . History and Archives at Lebanon, Pennsylvania From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/29/2006 2:16:00 PM
Pennyslvania, on June 24, 2006
distance from Philadelphia, Baltimore (Maryland), Wilmington (Delaware), and Trenton (New Jersey). It is only about 125 miles west of New York City. So it is
part of the general area where a lot of early AA history occurred, and the archives from that part of the U.S. are extremely important for people researching early AA history. A lot of the people who were involved in writing
the Big Book and so on, whose names are familiar to all historians of early AA history, were active in that area of the U.S. A repeat conference is going to be held next June. The plans are to keep using
this conference as a place for AA historians from the east coast to report on their research and compare notes with one another. And the inclusion of people like Mitchell K. and his talk on early Cleveland AA means that reports on research into other parts of the early AA world, including the Akron/Cleveland area of the Midwest, are also going to be welcome. It was also a marvelous opportunity for a lot of us "AAHistoryLovers" to meet in person for the first time, which was a lot of fun for everyone.
report on what went on. ______________________________
(welch at a-1associates.com) Had an opportunity to attend the "Multi-District History and Archives Gathering" in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, last Saturday (June 24, 2006). The event was really
great. Jared Lobdell headed up the entire event and participated in some of the presentations. Mitch Klein gave a really great presentation of his experiences with Clarence
Snyder. It was a warm and genuine expression of history. Glenn Chesnut, the lead speaker, was very explicit in his topic of writing about
AA history. He and I had exchanged some "shaggy dog" stories over the last
several years and the chance to meet him in person (as well as the others) was a
personally fulfilling experience since we both shared a friendship with Nancy
Olson. There was also a good panel presentation given mainly by "Shaky Mike" Gwirtz from the Philadelphia area and a fellow named "BJ' concerning Fitz Mayo and Jim
Burwell who were responsible for getting AA going in eastern PA and MD. Bill Lash taped all of the conference except for a sharing from an old-timer, Chet H., who didn't want to be taped.
"whelm" me! Al Welch ______________________________ The text of Glenn C.'s talk is posted at http://hindsfoot.org/penntalk.html "Writing Local A.A. History: Stories as the Vessels of Wisdom and Grace " ______________________________ For recordings of the speakers and panels contact Bill Lash: "Bill Lash" barefootbill@optonline.net (barefootbill at optonline.net)
very
cool. Yes, please refer anyone interested in getting the recordings of that weekend to my email address. There were 5 CDs for the set and they cost $34 plus $4 for shipping. I no longer have cassettes because no one buys them anymore. Thanks, take it easy and God bless. Just Love, Barefoot Bill ______________________________
by Mitchell K. Disk 2: "Writing AA History" by Glenn C. Disk 3: "Proposed AA History 1955 to 2000" panel discussion and "Problems Writing AA History" panel discussion.
From: johncseibert . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/29/2006 1:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I was recently asked about the text of tradition two in the 12x12. Specifically I was asked if I knew who it was Bill was referring to when he wrote: "Almost timidly, one of my friends began to speak." pg 137 Also they were curious as to why Bill mentions this story about being offered a position at Townes Hospital in the text of tradition 2 instead of either tradition 6 (Never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise etc.) or tradition 8 (Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional etc.) unless it's to emphasize the point of a "Loving God as he may express himself through our group conscience" being the guiding forcxe of A.A. Can any of you learned folks answer these two questions?
Wilson Book From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/26/2006 9:13:00 PM
posting of AA's history or by inaccurate sharing at an AA meeting .People take it as being gospel and repeat misinformation. That is how these rumors get started. Any information I post can be documented and substantiated. "I think I remembers" should not be considered fact until they can be substantiated. Shakey Mike G. Director Archives Committee South Eastern Penna Intergroup Assn.
From: kilroy@ceoexpress.com> . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2006 6:41:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In an audiotape that I have the name is Anne Craw and she is from Niles Ohio.While being credited with writing the Rewards, she stated that she and others seated at a table in a diner after a meeting wrote the 12 Rewards. It was
not a sole endeavor. She also states that as a young girl she worked in the same
building in Akron Ohio that Dr. Bob had his medical office, and would often see
him at lunchtime in the cafeteria. She says that he never ate lunch and always
smelt like sauerkraut (this was long before he met Bill W.) Kilroy W. 4021 Club Philadelphia PA
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: The Rewards and Ann Croft Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Could that have been Anne Craw of Niles, OH? --- John Lee > The Rewards are a personal reworking of the 9th step > promises. Ann Croft of Akron composed the 12 > Rewards. She was the first woman in Akron AA to stay > sober. Ann is referenced twice in Doctor Bob and > the Good Oldtimers. > Ann wrote the Rewards to indicate how some of the > Promises had come true in her life. Ann never > intended that the Rewards would come true generally > for members of the Fellowship. We may not get back > the love and understanding of our families, for > instance. > love+service > john lee > member
> pittsburgh > > robin_foote > Hi AA history lovers, > > I recently heard the following on a track recorded > by Searcy W. I have heard > various forms of this over the years and find it > follows on from the > 'promises'. > > I have seen something similar in the Big Book but > cannot find it. > > Was Searcy the originator or is it from another > source? Anyone know? > > THE TWELVE REWARDS OF SOBRIETY > > By Searcy W., 55 years sober as at 2001 aged 90. > > o Faith instead of despair. > > o Courage instead of fear. > > o Hope instead of desperation. > > o Peace of mind instead of confusion. > > o Real friendships instead of loneliness. > > o Self-respect instead of self-contempt. > > o Self-confidence instead of helplessness. > > o A clean conscious instead of a sense of guilt. > > o The respect of others instead of their pity and > contempt. > > o A clean pattern of living instead of a hopeless > existence. > > o The love and understanding of our families instead > of their doubts and > fears.
> > o The freedom of a happy life instead of the bondage > of an alcoholic > obsession. > > A great source of AA tracks in MP3 format is at > http://www.xa-speakers.org/ > located in Iceland with over 800 tracks including AA > Founders. Perfect for > my iPod. > > Robin F. > > Caloundra, Australia. > > Page 55 of the Big Book awoke my spirit. > > www.BriefTSF.com Download 13.83 Mb. Share with your friends:
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