Prince William County Virginia Clerk’s Loose Papers

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Mr. Browning: We have to object to the form of the question.

Court: He said “No”

By Mr. Patterson:

Q. How long have you known Mr. Sullivan? Answer – I have known him four or five years.

Q. Did you ever know him to be sick before this time? Answer – I never did. He appeared like a mighty thrifty man.

Q. Had you seen much of him during those years? Answer – I saw him every once in a while. I am pretty well acquainted with him now. He used to be a perfect stranger to me, but he is not now, and has not been for the past three years.

Q. State whether or not he enjoyed good or bad health before this accident? Answer – I can’t tell you that; hearsay evidence will not do, and I have been stopped half a dozen times, and I can’t go any further.

Q. Did you ever know him to be sick before this accident? Answer – No, sir.

Q. Did he appear to be in good health, or not?

Mr. Hall: We object to how he appears to be.

Court: I will overrule that.

By Mr. Patterson:

Q. Go ahead. Answer – I can’t go ahead; I have no more to say.

Q. Did you ever hear him complain of any ailment of any kind? Answer – I never did.

Q. Did you ever, before this accident, know him to have a spasm, or fit, or convulsion of any kind? Answer- No , sir, not before this.

Q. State whether or not you have seen him have a spasm, or fit, or convulsion, since this accident? Answer – I did not, but the other day I was in my corn field, and when I started back he started to come out to me, he and his little baby, and he was about to fall in the field, and I don’t know whether he fell or laid down; I was about 300 yards from him, and I broke to run, and when I got there he was over it then.

Q. Did you see him fall? Answer – No, sir, I saw him standing up, and I was about at my work, and rather forgot him, and I happened to look again, and he was laying down, and then I happened to think about these spells that they told me he got, and I broke to run, and when I got there he had gotten on his feet.

Q. Describe his appearance, - not what he told you, but what you saw? Answer – I don’t know that he looked much different to me only his eyes looked so red. It appeared to make his eyes look bloodshot.

Q. Did you observe his mouth? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. What did you observe about that?

Mr. Hall: I wish the record to show an objection on this ground, that Mr. Halterman is not

qualified to speak as an expert, not being qualified.

Court: What is the question?

Mr. Hall: The objection goes to the line of questions dealing with Mr. Halterman’s observation of

Mr. Sullivan in what he claims to have been, or just after he claims to have had one of these attacks.

Court: I will overrule the objection insofar as it applies to the question “State his appearance”.

Don’t give any opinion or belief on it. (The last two questions were read)

Court: I will sustain the objection to that, but you can ask his general appearance.

Court: Was there anything else you noticed about him? Answer – No sir.

Court: That is all you noticed? Answer – I got to talking to him, as I believe that was what was

the matter with him.

Court: Have you noticed anything peculiar about his appearance? Answer – I will let you state

that? Answer – His appearance appeared like usual.

Mr. Patterson: Before this accident, what was Mr. Sullivan’s business, if you know?

Court: Does he know that of his own knowledge?

Mr. Patterson: Do you know what it was?

Court: Other than what he told you? Answer – I can’t answer it. I know what he told me about it,

but I will not answer that.

Court: That is all right.


Mr. A. T. Browning: Before taking up the cross examination, we want to ask the court to strike

out, and tell the jury to disregard, what this witness said about the speed of the train.

Mr. Mackey: We consent that.

Court: I sustain that.

Mr. Mackey: It goes out.

By Mr. Hall:

Q. Mr. Halterman, I understood you to say while you were waiting for Mr. Sullivan to come to Bristow, on the evening of the wreck, you thought there was a collision down there, and went on down there where the two trains were, and that it was about dark, and you “disremembered” the condition of the car, that you did not pay much attention to it. Answer – Yes, sir. I told you so.

Q. Was that car still standing on the track, in which Mr. Sullivan was when you got there? Answer – Yes

Q. The lights in the car were still burning? Answer – Yes, sir, there was light in there.

Q. The glasses in the windows were broken? Answer – Oh, yes, sir.

Q. Now, aside from the pieces of glass and the splinters from the window frames, and things of that sort, and the one stick of lumber which you spoke of having seen, what else did you observe on the inside of that car that you recollect? Answer – I observed but very little, because I didn’t look much at the car.

Q. You observed but very little? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. Do you recollect where that stick of lumber was that you saw? Answer – I cannot. I can’t tell you, but I saw lumber and I saw a window glass smashed up, and clothes laying around, and I didn’t look but little, and I was looking for the sick and suffering; that is what I went there for. I didn’t go to help an engine up, or to look at a car or anything of the kind.

Q. The car was crowded with passengers, I suppose? Answer – It was still standing up as it had been, but it was leaning terribly. The engine went down over the bank, and stopped instantly there, I reckon. The tender next to it, I disremember whether that was over-set, or not, but probably it was. The car that he was in was still on the track.

Q. And the car was full of passengers? Answer – It was like people very often see on the car. The clothes that they had on, the over coats and hats were laying to and fro, and there was a heap of dirt from the wreck. I was hunting for him, as I knew that he was in there.

Q. Where was Mr. Sullivan when you first saw him? Answer – He was right in the car standing up, or rather leaning against the wall on the right side as you go south.

Q. Standing up right against the wall? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. And how long after the collision do you think it was when you got there? Answer – Well, sir, it might have been fifteen minutes, and it might not have been quite that. It might not have been over ten. I immediately started from the station when I saw the wreck; I saw the steam blowing out from the engine, away from the track.

Q. Did you ask Dr. Wine to come and attend Mr. Sullivan, or was Dr. Wine in the car when you got there? Answer – He was there, but I asked him to go and do something for this man, and he said that he would as quick as he got through with another, that he had another patient who was in a horrible condition.

Q. If Dr. Wine says that you called him outside of the car to come and see Mr. Sullivan, he is mistaken? Answer – I think he is mistaken. I think he overlooks the thing. I was not outside until I started for my buggy.

Q. You think you remember it better than Dr. Wine? Answer – I don’t know that I remember it, but that is my belief. My belief is what I am telling you, and I think I am right.

Q. You don’t know how Mr. Sullivan was sitting at the time of the accident? Answer – No, sir.

Q. You don’t know whether he was holding his baby in his arms at that time? Answer – No, sir, because I wasn’t there.

Q. And you don’t know whether he continued to hold the baby after he was thrown out of his seat? Answer No, sir.

Q. When you saw him ten minutes afterwards, somebody else was holding the baby? Answer – Ten or fifteen minutes; I didn’t notice the time exactly.

Q. How far was Mrs. Sullivan away from the piece of lumber you speak of? Answer – I don’t know.

Q. What part of the car was the piece of lumber you saw? Answer – The piece of lumber I saw laying partly out of one window and partly in at the other where it went straight across.

Q. What part of the car, at one end, or the other end, or in the middle? Answer – I don’t recollect that, whether in the middle, or at either end, but it was in the car.

Q. you saw one piece of lumber in the car? Answer – I saw plenty of it outside.

Q. Tell us how you remember seeing that one piece of lumber so well, and can’t remember where it was? Answer – I can’t tell you that, but it was in the car. That is all I can tell you, it was in the car.

Q. and that was the only piece of lumber you saw in the car? Answer – Yes, sir; if you ask me whereabouts I saw Mr. Sullivan in the car I couldn’t tell you.

Q. That is just what I was coming to. Answer – I don’t know, but he stood inside somewhere; it was on the right side if I recollect correctly; I walked across and got to him.

Q. Did you see many people in that car that were injured? Answer – No, sir.

Q. What did you mean by hearing the people holler and being injured? Answer – I didn’t tell you people were injured. I know there was a woman cut terribly in the face with glass, and this man here was about all I saw that were injured except the fireman, and he was outside.

Q. That was not in the car? Answer – No, sir; he was outside.

Q. You saw in the car some overcoats scattered around, and Mr. Sullivan was by the wall holding up, and a women cut in the face? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. That is all you saw? Answer – I saw others there, but no one hurt. I saw Dr. Wine in there, and Frank Rhodes in there, the man withdrawn from the jury today.

Did you see Frank Rhodes in the car? Answer – I am not sure I saw him in the car, but he was there. After this thing had been kind of settled, probably he was in the smoker, but I don’t know.

Q. You don’t know whether you saw him in one car or the other? Answer – He come in the same car where Mr. Sullivan was, but I don’t know whether he was in it when the wreck was, because I wasn’t there when the wreck was. I didn’t get there for ten or fifteen minutes after; I couldn’t witness nothing about that.

Q. The baby was not hurt in this wreck at all, was she? Answer – No, sir.

Q. Mrs. Sullivan was not hurt? Answer – No, sir.

Q. Was she sitting in the same seat that Mr. Sullivan was? Answer –

Court: He was not there.

By Mr. A. T. Browning:

Q. Mr. Halterman, you were standing at Bristow Station when this C&O freight went by, I understood you to say? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. Tell the jury, Mr. Halterman, just where you were standing, please? Answer – Well, I stood right in front of the station when the C&O passed, that freight.

Q. Now, to get it into the record, which side of the track were you standing on, the east side or the west side? Answer – I was standing on the east side.

Q. On the east side? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. The C&O freight train went on the eastern track, did it not? Answer – Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. How far from that track, as near as you can get at it, Mr. Halterman, were you standing? Answer – Probably six feet.

Q. Did you observe the train closely as it passed? Answer – Well, I did apparently, not so particularly; it wasn’t drawing my attention enough to look up, only I saw it was going mighty fast.

Q. You saw nothing unusual about the equipment of the train? Answer – I did not, no, sir; no, indeed.

Q. Where has Mr. Sullivan lived up to the time of this accident? Answer – Up to the time.

Q. Yes. Answer – From the time I first knew him he lived in Washington.

Q. Up until when? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. He visited at your house, I suppose, before that? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. how long had he been married before the accident? Answer – He was married in 1913.

Q. How often had he been to your house after his marriage, if you can tell? Answer – My goodness! I couldn’t tell you, but he had come up there once a month, and something once in two months.

Q. He never lived there? Answer – No, sir.

Q. He visited there? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. He was out working during that time? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. When his wife would visit there, would he spend all the time that she would spend, or would he come for the week-end? Answer – He would come up sometimes in the evening and go back next morning.

Q. How often was that? Answer – Sometimes he would not come there for four months, and then sometimes he would come in a week or two.

Q. Would it average two months? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. He would come up there and stay there at night? Answer – He would hardly ever come unless he stayed over night.

Q. Were those the only occasions on which you would see Mr. Sullivan there during that time? Answer, No

Q. On what other occasions, and for how long? Answer – Before that?

Q. Before the accident, and after his marriage? I can’t tell you how long before, but I suppose two years that I knew him. That is what you wanted, was it?

Q. You do not exactly get my question, I don’t think; I am getting at how much you saw of Mr. Sullivan before the accident. I want to get you entirely straight. You said that he would come on an average of once in two months? Answer – I am just guessing at it.

Q. Your best judgment is what I want. An average of once in two months, and spend a night? Answer – Yes, sir, and sometimes spend two nights. I don’t know that it would average that, but, as I told you, sometimes he was not there for three months or four months, and then he would come oftener. I didn’t calculate it to see what it amounted to.

Q. Outside of those visits, what were your opportunities for seeing him; that is, how often did you see him during that period from his marriage up to the date of accident? Answer – How often did I see him?

Q. Yes, outside of his visits that you have detailed? Answer – I can’t answer your question. The things passed off with me, I kept but little record of it.

Q. I am getting at what opportunities you had for knowing what his previous health was? Answer – I appeared to be pretty well acquainted with him, and I heard no complaint from him. That is the only thing I had reference to. I never heard him complain of being sick, but since then I heard it a good deal. I was asked awhile ago whether he was this way or that way, and I could not answer whether he was sick, or not..

Q. Before his marriage how long had you known him? Answer – I didn’t know him very well before, but probably eight or nine months.

Q. during that period did you see him except when, I suppose, he visited your house, courting, we will say? Answer – I was never acquainted with him before, only coming to my place.

Q. And he would just come then and spend the evening? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. And that up to the time of the accident embraced your knowledge of his whereabouts? Answer – Yes, sir

Q. Now since the accident where has he been living? Answer – Where have they been living?

Q. Yes. Answer – In Washington.

Q. How often have they visited your house since the accident? Answer – you asked that question awhile ago, and I would not begin to say. If I had set it down, and had the book with me, I could show you, but I didn’t do that.

Q. From your recollection, you can’t even approximate it? Answer – No, but it has been quite a good while. They were at my place a good while in that time.

Q. More since the accident than before? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. Now, Mr. Halterman, have you ever seen Mr. Sullivan have a convulsion? Answer – No, sir.

Q. Neither before nor since the accident? Answer – No, sir, only the other day, as I mentioned awhile ago, he was in the corn field, and I thought by his appearance that there was something wrong, and I started across to see him, because he had the baby with him, and I thought it might get hurt, and when I got there he had none, but he had had one, I reckon.

Q. Was he working in the corn field? Answer – No, he was at the house.

Q. You were in the corn field, and he was at the house? Answer – yes, sir.

Q. Had he had a convulsion on that occasion? Answer – I don’t know, but I reckon he had; he looked delicate.

Q. You didn’t see him have one? Answer – No, sir.

Q. On what day was that? Answer – I will tell you in a minute, if I study over it. It was not longer than day before yesterday. Day before yesterday was when he was in the corn field with me.

Q. Had he been out in the sun day before yesterday? Answer – Of course, if the sun was shining, there wasn’t any other way for him than to be in it.

Q. He was in the corn field? Answer – Yes, sir; the corn field ain’t in the house.

Q. How long had he been in the corn field before you observed that? Answer – I don’t know that. The first I seen him, I seen him standing up about three or four hundred yards from me on a kind of rise; he come to the top of the hill, and he would have to come three or four hundred yards to get to me. He stopped there, and was standing and his little chap with him, and I forgot him, and I happened to look across and he was laying there.

Q. He was lying down? Answer – Yes, sir; I started towards him, and his little chap was walking around him, and when I got there he was kind of sitting up, and I asked him what was the matter. I will not answer that question; I almost forgot myself to go too far.

Q. Did he have his little child in his arms when you first saw him? Answer – No; it was walking around him, didn’t I tell you that awhile ago?

Q. You said when he sat down. Did I understand you to say in response to a previous question that the piece of lumber that you saw in the car came from the C&O railroad? Answer – I don’t know where it came from. I couldn’t tell you that.

By Mr. Hall:

Q. Mr. Halterman, I understood you to say when you were standing at Bristow you saw this C&O freight train come by, and it was the fastest freight train you ever saw? Answer – It appeared so, but it might not have been. Maybe it was because I stood so close to it when it was running.

Q. You live near the railroad? Answer – Sir.

Q. I say you live near the railroad, don’t you? You see trains pass backwards and forward more or less? Answer – I do every day when I am at home.

Q. And that train impressed you as the fastest you ever saw? Answer – I don’t know. I have seen some mighty fast ones go sometimes, but it did go powerful. I thought at the time it did go as fast as any passenger I ever saw, but maybe it was not that fast. I just expressed it as it appeared to me; I don’t say that it was.

Q. Did you ever live in West Virginia? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. Did you live at Whipple, West Virginia? Answer – Sir?

Q. Where did you live in West Virginia? Answer – I lived in Harding County, on the border line between West Virginia and Virginia.

Q. Did you ever meet Mr. Sullivan before you came here? Answer – No, sir. I have lived here going on nine years, and I lived here sometime before I learned to know him. I thought I knew him.

Afternoon Session

Mr. Mackey: There is a deposition which fills up the gap between the first aid treatment by Dr.

Wine and when Dr. Hooe’s treatment began, and that is Dr. Bacon, and I think it proper for us to fill up that gap.

Mr. Hall: Before the deposition is read, there are certain objections which we wish to make to it,

which should not be made in the presence of the jury. I suggest that you put off that deposition until later, when there are other depositions.

Dr. A. B. Hooe, another witness called on behalf of the plaintiff, being duly sworn, testified as follows:


By Mr. Mackey:

Q. Dr. Hooe, where were you from originally? Answer – Virginia

Q. What part of Virginia? Answer – King George County.

Q. Where do you live now? Answer – District of Columbia, Washington City.

Q. How long have you been in Washington, doctor? Answer – I reckon twenty-six or twenty-seven years.

Q. What is your business, doctor? Answer – I am a physician and doctor of medicine.

Q. Do you make surgery a specialty? Answer – I do.

Q. About how many surgical operations, doctor, have you performed since you graduated in medicine? Answer – I have no idea.

Q. I will ask you if it runs into the thousands? Answer – I think so.

Q. How many thousands, doctor , of operations have you performed? Answer – I would not pretend to guess. Not so many thousands; that is dealing in large figures, you know.

Q. When did you graduate in medicine, doctor? Answer – May 1896

Q. At what medical school? Answer – Columbia University, Washington, District of Columbia.

Q. Have you practiced medicine ever since? Answer – I have.

Q. And surgery ever since? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. Do you make a specialty of anything, doctor, in medicine or surgery? Answer – Abdominal surgery.

Q. You are a general practitioner, too, I believe? Answer – To a very limited extent.

Q. Does your study of medicine and surgery require you to have a knowledge of the nervous system? Answer – To some extent, of course, a general knowledge.

Q. Do you study the nervous system in learning your profession? Answer – We study all the systems of the human body, including the nervous system.

Q. Will you state, doctor, when you first met the plaintiff, William J. Sullivan? Answer – In the late summer or early fall of 1915; I think, to be more exact, in September, 1915.

Q. Who had been treating him before you were called in to see him? Answer – I don’t know, sir; I have heard, but I don’t know

Q. Did he give you a history of any prior treatment? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. Who did he state had been treating him? Answer – He stated that he had been treated by Dr. Bacon, by Dr. Wine, by Dr. Iden, and Dr. Jacks.

Q. Did you make an examination of him doctor? Answer – Yes, sir.

Q. Will you state what you found his condition to be on that first examination? Answer –

Mr. Hall: Will you locate that first examination?

Court: He stated, I think, in September, 1915

Mr. Hall: That is when he first met him, but when he made his first examination.

Witness: I can’t give a more accurate date.

By Mr. Mackey:

Q. Doctor, will you state just what you found his condition to be at that time? Answer – The physical condition was gone over, and I was not able to arrive at any definite conclusion as the result if my examination because the symptoms were subjective practically altogether, rather than objective.

Court: Will you explain the difference between objective and subjective? Answer – The objective

systems are something the doctor can see. For example, if you had your finger sprained at the joint, that is objective, but if you had something the matter with it and come to mean say it hurt, that is subjective.

By Mr. Mackey:

Q. Are these subjective symptoms important? Answer – Yes, they are most important. After examining this case thoroughly, I was not satisfied in my own mind whether the patient, Mr. Sullivan, was one of that type of malingerers, commonly spoken of as traumatic neurasthenia, or railroad spine, or whether there was a deeper seated trouble and to arrive at a more definite conclusion I called to my aid two other medical men who are specialists, Dr. William T. Davis, whose specialty is the eye, and the reason for calling in an eye man specially in this case is because, especially in obscure brain conditions, we are more apt to arrive at a definite conclusion by seeing the base of the eye. With an instrument you can examine the base of the eye. I am not skilled in that line, and I called Dr. Davis in on that line. Then, as an expert in neurological or nervous conditions, and by nervous condition we do not mean a little tremor, a man saying “I feel badly”, but if there is a tumor on the brain, we recognize that as a nervous condition; we recognize it as a nervous symptom, and the center of the nervous system is the brain, and to determine if there was a brain lesion I called to my aid Dr. Williams, a neurologist. Later on, at the suggestion of the medical advisor of the railroad, other tests were made, a bi-chemical test. By a bi-chemical test we mean an examination of the fluid from the spinal column, and they were examined to see whether there was any evidence of syphilis that could be detected in this case. After these examinations, the conclusion arrived at was that there was no evidence----

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