Aa history Lovers 2004 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page

Hi Audrey

The pamphlet "AA for the woman" is one of the oldest pieces of literature in

AA. It was Conference-approved in 1952 by Panel 2 (the first Conference with

all Delegates attending).

Below are extracts from Conference Advisory Actions. I only checked up to

2002 and don't know if there were any related advisory actions last year or

this year.

Cheers

Arthur

CONFERENCE LITERATURE COMMITTEE

1952 It was recommended that:

The report of the Foundation's Committee on Literature, together with Bill's

report of his proposed program of activity be approved.

Note: Ten projects carried out by the Foundations Committee on Literature

included production of the new pamphlet "A.A. for the Woman," the pictorial

script for film strips on headquarters services, the 1951 Conference report,

Interim reports from the Trustees to the delegates, preparation of the

manuscript for a new pamphlet on "The Alcoholic Employee," material on the

Traditions prepared by Bill, two recordings and two reproductions of the

A.A. prayer.

1961

The Committee noted with sympathy the recommendation that stories of a more

for revision.

1967 The committee:

Expressed interest in upcoming revisions of "A.A. for the Woman," "Young

People in A.A.," and "Questions and Answers on Sponsorship."

1986 It was recommended that:

The updated draft for "A.A. for the Woman" be accepted with the exception of

the story "I Hated Monday Mornings. . . ," and that production proceed under

the direction of the trustees' Literature Committee.

2002

Woman" be changed from "Yes, A.A. is a spiritual program, providing no

material aid, but it is not a religious program in any sectarian sense," to

"Yes, A.A. is a spiritual program, not a religious program."

-----

From: Audrey Borden [mailto:audreyborden@earthlink.net]

To: aahistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Looking for info regarding publication Date of

"AA and the Woman"

Greetings AA Historians,

I'm hoping you can help me track down the first publication date of the AA

pamphlet "AA and the Woman."

The copyright on the version I have (picked up recently at my home group) is

1976. My sense is that this pamphlet (or a version of it) would have been

available before that, and I recently came across evidence that suggests

this is true.

On page 51 of "Advisory Actions of the General Service Conference of

Alcoholics Anonymous, 1951-2000," in the list of Actions based upon reports

from the Conference Literature Committee, I note that in 1967 the Literature

Committee

"voiced high hopes for the Newcomers' Meetings Kit; and expressed interest

in upcoming revisions of 'A.A. for the Woman, 'Young People in A.A.," and

'Questions and Answers on Sponsorship.'"

This seems to indicate that A.A. did publish a pre-1976 version of "A.A. for

the Woman."

Can anyone verify this and give me the publication date? Your help is much

appreciated!

Sincerely, -- Audrey B.

Marin County, California

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you Yahoo!?

Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now [106] .

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++++Message 1982. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Saurkraut, tomatoes, and syrup

From: Jim S. . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/19/2004 5:25:00 PM

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"Another fact about Dr. Bob that is often understated or ignored

is the fact that he was addicted to pills as well as to alcohol."

Thomas L. Haynes, M. D.

Can anyone tell me where he found that information? In his story in

the Big Book, he tells of taking large doses of sedatives to quiet

the morning jitters, and in "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers."

pp21,22. it mentions his `patent throat,' saying, "In his sober

years, he would take a days supply of vitamins or medicines and toss

them down his open throat all at one time, without water." While I

don't claim to be a student of AA history I have read quite a bit

without coming across anything which would hint that he was anything

but an alcoholic.

Perhaps this is another rumor along the lines of , "Bill W.

dropped acid for five years and didn't change his sobriety date." A

fact or two twisted to mean something entirely different.

Jim S.

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From: Arthur Sheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/20/2004 12:31:00 AM

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Re "Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers" pgs 32 & 33 - Dr Bob did barbiturates by

day and booze by night. At the bottom of pg 32 it states "He contracted what

in later years would be called a pill problem, or dual addiction."

Re "Pass It On" pgs 368 to 377 - Bill's LSD experiments are fairly well

documented. At the time (1956) LSD was undergoing serious medical research in

the treatment of alcoholism. Other who also experimented with LSD were Father

Dowling, the Rev Sam Shoemaker and Lois Wilson. Marty Mann, Bill's mistress,

Helen W, and Nell wing also joined the experimentation in NY (re "Bill W" by

Francis Hartigan pgs 9 and 177 - 179 and "Grateful to Have Been There" by Nell

Wing pgs 81 - 82).

Cheers

----- Original Message -----

From: Jim S.

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 5:25 PM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Saurkraut, tomatoes, and syrup

"Another fact about Dr. Bob that is often understated or ignored

is the fact that he was addicted to pills as well as to alcohol."

Thomas L. Haynes, M. D.

Can anyone tell me where he found that information? In his story in

the Big Book, he tells of taking large doses of sedatives to quiet

the morning jitters, and in "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers."

pp21,22. it mentions his `patent throat,' saying, "In his sober

years, he would take a days supply of vitamins or medicines and toss

them down his open throat all at one time, without water." While I

don't claim to be a student of AA history I have read quite a bit

without coming across anything which would hint that he was anything

but an alcoholic.

Perhaps this is another rumor along the lines of , "Bill W.

dropped acid for five years and didn't change his sobriety date." A

fact or two twisted to mean something entirely different.

Jim S.

++++Message 1984. . . . . . . . . . . . Recovery rate.

From: Johnny Hughes . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/22/2004 9:55:00 PM

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Hello all you history lovers....

Somewhere I read an article about someone doing research on the present

recovery rate and they had secured information from a large intergroup

source concerning the number of white chips purchased by local groups

and the number of blue chips purchased by local groups which gave some

indication.

Does anyone know of this article or any other source concerning the

present recovery rate experienced by AA?

Thanks....

In His Service

Johnny H.

Fayetteville, NC

"Remember, Bill, let's not louse this thing up. Let's keep it

simple"

[107] has notified the sender that this message has been

received.

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++++Message 1985. . . . . . . . . . . . Earliest Printings of Twenty-Four

Hours a Day

From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/23/2004 12:11:00 PM

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The Earliest Printings of Richmond

Walker's Twenty-Four Hours a Day

Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)

Jack H. (Scottsdale, Arizona), who has one of the best private collections of

A.A. archival material in the United States, has copies of some of the first

printings of Richmond Walker's Twenty-Four Hours a Day, running from the

earliest printed version down to the later Hazelden printings. This article is

based in large part on information and photocopies which he kindly provided.

(A version of this article with photos of various pages of these books may be

seen at http://hindsfoot.org/RWcvPhot.html)

Rich (who had gotten sober in May 1942) first assembled the material on small

cards which he carried around with him to use in his own prayer and

meditation. But in 1948, members of the A.A. groups in Daytona Beach, Florida,

persuaded him to have this material printed in book form, so the rest of them

could use it too. He had some copies printed, and demand for the book quickly

began to spread outside of the Daytona Beach area. Rich distributed them from

his basement: A.A. members would write him asking for copies, and he would

wrap them and mail them out. Past Delegate Bob P. (Goshen, Indiana) told me

that Wesley Parrish, an A.A. member in Daytona Beach, was a County

Commissioner and obtained the use of the county printing press to run these

copies off. The county was paid for the printing, but this arrangement may

have made it easier to print small batches relatively inexpensively. I was

told that Parrish (whom Bob P. had met in the course of

his A.A. activities) had come from Georgia down into Florida as a housing

contractor.

A photocopy of the title page of this earliest version may be seen at

http://hindsfoot.org/RW1prnt1.html. The pages are about 2-7/8 inches wide and

5-1/2 inches high (7.3 cm x 14 cm). The title page reads as follows:

==============================

TWENTY-FOUR HOURS A DAY

Price $1.50

Twenty-Four Hours A Day

P. O. Box 2170

Daytona Beach, Florida

==============================

Following Jack's chronology (which makes sense), Rich at first gave no

indication of authorship. Everyone in that part of Florida knew that he was

the one who had put the book together.

So the back page of this earliest version (for photo see

http://hindsfoot.org/RW1prnt2.html) gives only the price and the address for

ordering copies of the book:

==============================

FURTHER COPIES OF THIS BOOK MAY

BE HAD AT $1.50 APIECE

BY WRITING TO:

TWENTY-FOUR HOURS A DAY

P.O. BOX 2170

DAYTONA BEACH, FLORIDA

==============================

In later printings (following Jack's chronology) Rich added, at the end of the

book, "Compiled by a member of the Group at Daytona Beach, Fla." As use of the

little book began to spread rapidly across the United States, people in other

parts of the country wanted to know where it came from. Rich, who always acted

with the greatest humility, refused even to put his first name and last

initial on the book, but simply indicated what A.A. group he belonged to. He

wanted absolutely no personal fame, glory, or personal profit from the book.

David W., the Florida A.A. archivist, says that if at some points the book

distribution earned a slight profit, Rich immediately donated all of it to

A.A.

But putting the name of the group on the book was important, because the rule

A.A. group was automatically considered appropriate for use by other A.A.

groups -- any other group which chose to do so could read from it in meetings

and employ it for beginners lessons and so on, simply on the grounds that it

had been officially supported by the A.A. group where it was originally

written. So the simple statement that the publication of this meditational

book had been backed by the Daytona Beach A.A. groups was extremely important.

A.A. groups started using Twenty-Four Hours a Day to read from in their

meetings all over the United States, and individual members began buying

copies of the little book to carry with them throughout the day in a pocket or

a purse. At least half of the A.A. members in the United States owned a copy

before very long. Any number of good old-timers have told me that they got

sober off of two books: the Big Book and the Twenty-Four Hour book. In fact,

one of the best A.A. historians has estimated that there was a period when

more A.A. members owned a copy of Rich's book than owned their own personal

copy of the Big Book.

As demand for the little book continued to increase, Rich (who was not getting

any younger) found that he was not able to keep up with packaging and mailing

the thousands of copies that were now being distributed. In 1954, the year

Rich turned 62, Patrick Butler at Hazelden, who had heard of the problems Rich

was now having keeping up with the demand, offered to take over the printing

and distribution of the book.

It is important to realize that Hazelden was not even started until 1949, the

year after Rich had published Twenty-Four Hours a Day. Rich had had no

connection with Hazelden or Minnesota at all, and his little book of

meditations was definitely not a statement of the Minnesota Model of

alcoholism treatment. And even here in 1954, Hazelden was still not much more

than a large farmhouse on a Minnesota farm.

As William L. White notes in Slaying the Dragon: The History of Addiction

Treatment and Recovery in America, pp. 201-2 and 207-8, the psychiatrists and

psychotherapists did not really take over the Hazelden operation until later,

in the 1960's -- their people basically won control of its administration in

1966 -- at which point their program began referring to "chemical dependency"

and treating alcoholism and drug addiction as simply two forms of the same

addictive tendency, and so on, in ways that so often infuriate so many of the

A.A. old-timers. Richmond Walker was already dead by then (he died in 1965) --

his book is most definitely NOT a statement of that later "treatment center

mentality."

The first Hazelden printing of Twenty-Four Hours a Day in 1954 showed that

they were nevertheless already showing a tendency at times to blur the

distinction between A.A. principles and commercialism. Instead of the original

title page at the front of the book, the first Hazelden printing (see the

enlarged photocopy at http://hindsfoot.org/RWhaz1.html) put a long

advertisement for the Hazelden treatment program. There is a line drawing of

the farmhouse on the Hazelden farm, and the following text:

==============================

Hazelden

FOR THE

at Center City, Minnesota

The management at "Hazelden" has had six years experience in helping men with

drinking problems. Its Directors have been "through the mill" themselves, and

have developed a program of reading, meditation, audio-visual education,

consultation and discussion, which enables the convalescent guest to

understand the whys and wherefores of his problem, and how to get on top of

it.

well-being is recognized as one of the important steps along the road to

recovery. Rest and freedom from responsibility are also important, and

visitors are permitted only at the request of the guest.

Fishing, boating, pool, and shuffleboard are some of the possible diversions.

Doctors and registered nurses are available at all hours, and psychiatric

consultation is provided upon request.

Reasonable Rates . . . For particulars write to

Hazelden

341 North Dale Street Saint Paul 3, Minn.

(or) Center City, Minnesota

A Non-Profit Organization

==============================

This first Hazelden printing which came out in 1954 had a dark green cover. At

the back of the book, the last page (page 372) followed the format set in

Rich's later printings by not giving Rich's name in any form (not even first

name and last initial, or a pseudonym), but by instead simply saying that the

book was sponsored by the A.A. groups in Daytona Beach, Florida:

==============================

ADDITIONAL COPIES OF THIS BOOK

AVAILABLE AT $1.50

WRITE TO:

HAZELDEN

341 No. Dale St.

St. Paul 3, Minn.

Compiled by a member

of the Group at

Daytona Beach, Fla.

==============================

Rich was outraged at the way Hazelden had commercialized his book by putting

the lengthy advertisement for their treatment center as the first page in the

book. He told them to quit, and subsequent Hazelden printings removed the ad

and put the simple title "Twenty-Four Hours a Day" at the beginning as Rich

had intended.

Rich died on March 25, 1965, with 22 years of sobriety. His humble desire for

anonymity meant that A.A. people soon forgot who had written Twenty-Four Hours

a Day, but he left behind for the A.A. people whom he wished to serve, the

greatest classic of early A.A. spirituality. Step 11 said "Sought through

prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we

understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to

carry that out," but the Big Book gave no detailed information about how

prayer and meditation of this sort needed to be done. Rich supplied that need,

and grateful A.A. people everywhere seized upon his little book as their guide

to living sober and remaining in constant contact with the source of healing

grace on a day-by-day basis.

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++++Message 1986. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Recovery rate.

From: Arthur Sheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/23/2004 12:22:00 PM

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Hi

This topic has been addressed previously and I'd like to resubmit most of the

-----

My concerns relate to the statistical validity of the sampling method that

goes into the construction of quoted rates and whether it rises to a level

that yields statistical confidence in the numbers produced. Even today with

the membership surveys that are conducted by AA, I have concerns with the

sampling method used.

The deadly characteristic of alcoholism is the inclination of the alcoholic to

repeatedly return to drinking even in the face of compelling evidence that

shows they have no business taking a drink (the jay walker analogy in the

literature is right on). A fair number of alcoholics will fall into the

"unsuccessful" tally a number of times, hit bottom, and then move into the

"success" tally.

All too often an underlying presumption exists that if somebody doesn't

participate in AA any longer then they are likely to have returned to

drinking. That is just flat out wrong. There are many paths to spiritual

living and being helpful to others. I think the Achilles heel of quoted rates

lies not in the determination of the number of folks who are around and sober,

but in pinning down the number of folks who are not around and have returned

to drinking.

Those who stay sober in AA are clearly 100% successful and that population can

be approximately determined. As for the determination of the number of those

who have come to check out AA and then departed to drink again, each member

will have their anecdotal account but in terms of coming up with a

statistically valid census, I really have my doubts if it can be done.

Other things that increasingly cloud today's figures are "chemical dependency"

folks that enter AA with no drinking history who undergo a metamorphosis into

an alcoholic (usually because that don't want to attend NA and want to go to

AA instead).

On the plus side, this subject always provides a really good discussion item.

Cheers

PS - I'm struggling to understand what white and blue chips have to do with

recovery rates.

----- Original Message -----

From: Johnny Hughes

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 9:55 PM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Recovery rate.

Hello all you history lovers....

Somewhere I read an article about someone doing research on the present

recovery rate and they had secured information from a large intergroup

source concerning the number of white chips purchased by local groups and

the number of blue chips purchased by local groups which gave some

indication.

Does anyone know of this article or any other source concerning the present

recovery rate experienced by AA?

Thanks....

In His Service

Johnny H.

Fayetteville, NC

"Remember, Bill, let's not louse this thing up. Let's keep it simple"

Dr. Bob's last words to Bill.

[107] has notified the sender that this message has been

received.

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++++Message 1987. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Recovery rate.

From: Mel Barger . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/24/2004 5:01:00 AM

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Hi All,

I appreciate Arthur's thoughts on this subject of determining recovery rates.

low. I don't think it was ever very high if you just use the numbers of those

who drift in temporarily for various reasons but do not have that burning

desire to change their lives. I'd like to see success rates determined from a

population of members who have at least stayed sober a year. I think the

percentage of recoveries would be much higher.

And it is true that many people stop attending AA meetings but continue to

stay sober and relatively happy. I have known some of them, and they continue

to credit AA for their sobriety. They should be counted in the success

category.

Mel Barger.

~~~~~~~~

melb@accesstoledo.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Arthur Sheehan

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:22 PM

Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Recovery rate.

Hi

This topic has been addressed previously and I'd like to resubmit most of

-----

My concerns relate to the statistical validity of the sampling method that

goes into the construction of quoted rates and whether it rises to a level

that yields statistical confidence in the numbers produced. Even today with

the membership surveys that are conducted by AA, I have concerns with the

sampling method used.

The deadly characteristic of alcoholism is the inclination of the alcoholic

to repeatedly return to drinking even in the face of compelling evidence

that shows they have no business taking a drink (the jay walker analogy in

the literature is right on). A fair number of alcoholics will fall into the

"unsuccessful" tally a number of times, hit bottom, and then move into the

"success" tally.

All too often an underlying presumption exists that if somebody doesn't

participate in AA any longer then they are likely to have returned to

drinking. That is just flat out wrong. There are many paths to spiritual

living and being helpful to others. I think the Achilles heel of quoted

rates lies not in the determination of the number of folks who are around

and sober, but in pinning down the number of folks who are not around and

have returned to drinking.

Those who stay sober in AA are clearly 100% successful and that population

can be approximately determined. As for the determination of the number of

those who have come to check out AA and then departed to drink again, each

member will have their anecdotal account but in terms of coming up with a

statistically valid census, I really have my doubts if it can be done.

Other things that increasingly cloud today's figures are "chemical

dependency" folks that enter AA with no drinking history who undergo a

metamorphosis into an alcoholic (usually because that don't want to attend

NA and want to go to AA instead).

On the plus side, this subject always provides a really good discussion

item.

Arthur

recovery rates.

----- Original Message -----

From: Johnny Hughes

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 9:55 PM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Recovery rate.

Hello all you history lovers....

Somewhere I read an article about someone doing research on the present

recovery rate and they had secured information from a large intergroup

source concerning the number of white chips purchased by local groups and

the number of blue chips purchased by local groups which gave some

indication.

Does anyone know of this article or any other source concerning the

present recovery rate experienced by AA?

Thanks....

In His Service

Johnny H.

Fayetteville, NC

"Remember, Bill, let's not louse this thing up. Let's keep it simple"

Dr. Bob's last words to Bill.

[107] has notified the sender that this message has been

received.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message was scanned by GatewayDefender [4]

6:48:24 PM ET - 8/23/2004

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++++Message 1988. . . . . . . . . . . . Clarification of Post 1983

From: NMOlson@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/24/2004 6:03:00 AM

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Post 1983 says in part:

"Others who also experimented with LSD were Father Dowling, the Rev Sam

Shoemaker and Lois Wilson. Marty Mann, Bill's mistress, Helen W, and Nell wing

also joined the experimentation in NY (re "Bill W" by Francis Hartigan pgs 9

and 177 - 179 and "Grateful to Have Been There" by Nell Wing pgs 81 - 82)."

This has been misread by at least one member of the list to mean that Marty

Mann was Bill's mistress. "Bill's mistress" refers to Helen W., not Marty

Mann.

Nancy Olson

Moderator

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++++Message 1989. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Recovery rate.

From: Klaus Mäkelä . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/24/2004 11:07:00 AM

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What follows are excerpts from the abstract and discussion of the following

article:

Mäkelä, Klaus. (1994). Rates of attrition among the membership of Alcoholics

Anonymous in Finland. Journal of Studies on Alcohol, 55(1), 91-95.

Klaus Mäkelä

ABSTRACT

Anniversary announcements published in the national AA newsletter are used to

analyze membership turnover in Finnish AA. Of the total membership with at

least one year of sobriety, close to 90 per cent continue as sober members for

another year. Of those having one year of sobriety, about two thirds survive

to the next year. The survival rate of members with between two and five years

of sobriety is about 85 %. Among members with more than five years of

sobriety, the survival rate is above 90 per cent. There are no gender

differences in survival rates.

DISCUSSION

Our data shed no light on the attrition occurring before the first full year

of sobriety. Those who reach one year of continuous abstinence are of course a

highly selected group compared to the clinical populations for which success

rates usually are presented. If we look at the turnover from a mutual-help

movement perspective, however, we can conclude that the sober membership of AA

is exceptionally stable.

It should be pointed out that dropping out of AA does not necessarily mean a

relapse in drinking. Former members may continue to be sober, and natural

death takes its toll among the oldest cohorts. On the other side, continued

membership does not always mean frequent meeting attendance. Many among the

older members go to meetings very infrequently.

Although the risk of dropping out is quite low among members with at least a

few years of sobriety, it nevertheless is large enough to be experienced as a

real threat and to provide support to the conviction that meeting attendance

should continue for the whole lifetime. The threat is strengthened by the fact

that relapses of AA oldtimers provide dramatic material for gossiping.

----- Original Message ----- From: Mel Barger

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:01 PM

Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Recovery rate.

Hi All,

I appreciate Arthur's thoughts on this subject of determining recovery rates.

low. I don't think it was ever very high if you just use the numbers of those

who drift in temporarily for various reasons but do not have that burning

desire to change their lives. I'd like to see success rates determined from a

population of members who have at least stayed sober a year. I think the

percentage of recoveries would be much higher.

And it is true that many people stop attending AA meetings but continue to

stay sober and relatively happy. I have known some of them, and they continue

to credit AA for their sobriety. They should be counted in the success

category.

Mel Barger.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

++++Message 1990. . . . . . . . . . . . Dates on the 20 questions

From: butterfly2479 . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/23/2004 4:35:00 PM

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The 20 questions are often sited and used

in various re-written forms...I am aware

that AA has Its' use of them copyrighted now,

and contained in one of its' pamphlets.

But it appears to have been used by varying

sources for many years before this.

Can anyone verify the ORIGINAL date on the

JOHN HOPKINS TEST FOR ALCOHOLISM.

And what are your sources please?

thanks JP

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++++Message 1991. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Earliest Printing of Twenty-Four

Hours a Day

From: Dennis Mardon . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/24/2004 6:29:00 AM

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Thanks to Glenn C. for posting that history of the early writing, printing

and distribution of the Twenty-Four Hours a Day book by Richard W.

I seem to remember that prior to or maybe concurrent with the Hazelden

opportunity there was consideration given to the book becoming the property

of AA publishing. In fact, I believe it may have been considered more than

once by the General Service Conference in the early 1950's. I don't have a

copy of Advisory Actions handy. Can anyone shed more light on this?

Dennis M.

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++++Message 1992. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Recovery rate.

From: R. Peter Nixon . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/24/2004 5:32:00 PM

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Hello,

In response to Johnny's

and Go to Meetings''. *The entire article may be

found on the Primary Purpose Group of Dallas, Texas' website:

*http://www.ppgaadallas.org/aa_articles.htm*

* *

*

bold;"> *

Peter N.

…''Let's take a look at what appears to be happening as is reported in one

of our major cities in the Southwest (Houston).

NUMBER OF CHIPS SOLD BY THE INTERGROUP OFFICE IN 1996

Desire---------------------24,

246-----------------100%

30

days---------------------8,839-------------------36%

days---------------------5,960-------------------25%

90

days---------------------5,019-------------------21%

mos.-----------------------3,370-------------------15%

1

yr.--------------------------2,102---------------------9%

yr..-------------------------1,170---------------------5%

5

yr..----------------------------707---------------------3%

yrs.--------------------------560---------------------2%

20

yrs.--------------------------143-------------------0.6%

yrs.---------------------------26--------------------0.1%

For the year 1997, the number of 'desire chips'' sold was reduced to

22,191. For 1998, the number

dropped to 19,504. For 1999,

16,285 Desire Chips were sold. The

other statistics remained the same.

So how well is your group doing?

A very disturbing observation from the 1998 statistics is that 592

medallions were purchased for AA's celebrating 10 years of sobriety. The total

number of folks taking

'desire chips'' in 1988 was in excess of 40,000. Did only about 1.5% apply our

Program?''

*

bold;"> *

Message-----

*From:* Johnny Hughes

[mailto:drofjoy@nc.rr.com]

*Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:56

PM

*To:*

*Subject:* [AAHistoryLovers]

Recovery rate.

Hello all you history

lovers....

Somewhere I read an article about someone doing research on the present

recovery rate and they had secured information from a large intergroup source

concerning the number of white chips purchased by local groups and the number

of blue chips purchased by local groups which gave some indication.

Does anyone know of this article or any other source concerning the present

recovery rate experienced by AA?

Thanks....

In His Service

Johnny H.

Fayetteville, NC

"Remember, Bill, let's not louse this thing up.

Let's keep it simple"

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++++Message 1993. . . . . . . . . . . . Keep It Simple

From: Danny S . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/25/2004 7:59:00 AM

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Dr. Bob has long been credited with saying "Remember, Bill, let's

not louse this thing up. Let's keep it simple," as his last words to

Bill Wilson.

While Dr Bob is widely quoted as referring to AA as a whole and the

AA Program of recovery (12 Steps), he may have been referring to

Bill's work in helping form the Conference.

Can anyone verify the actual conversation within context, as to what

the actual "it" to which he was referring was? What was it that Dr

Bob thought Bill should keep simple?

Thanks

Peace,

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++++Message 1994. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Recovery rate.

From: AC . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/25/2004 9:50:00 AM

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At 03:32 PM 8/24/2004, you wrote:

>

>A very disturbing observation from the 1998 statistics is that 592

>total number of folks taking "desire chips" in 1988 was in excess of

>40,000. Did only about 1.5% apply our Program?"

>

I'm no math whiz but, with respect, there is a huge logical flaw in this

The implied assumption is that each "desire chip" represents a unique

individual. Thus, that out of 40 thousand plus who "tried out" AA, less

than 600 stuck around for a decade.

In practice, I suspect the ratio is far smaller. If you live in an area

where "desire chips" are distributed, how many folks do you know who

accumulated a drawer full of those "white chips" before they ever managed

to achieve 30 days? And how many "30 day wonders" bounced in and out of

this program for two or three years, picking up 90 here, 30 there and

there, maybe even six months once before they finally "got" that part about

not taking the First Drink?

Best,

Santa Cruz

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

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