Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3022. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hank P. and early AA From: mertonmm3 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/2/2006 7:28:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Pete, As you probably know Clarence and Hank were brothers in law. After the stock redemption/royalty sequence Hank carried a lifelong resentment because the agreement was that only Dr. Bob would receive any proceeds from the book. Dr. Bob did not want the royalty. Bill insisted that he take it to avoid a potential claim by Hank. (Legally this last assertation by Bill does not make sense but could be convincing coming from a person with most of law school completed to someone with no legal training.) Shortly thereafter Bill asked to "borrow" Dr. Bob's royalty if he didn't need it. One of the two letters housed at GSO became public and made it onto the interernet: See http://www.aagso.org/1941/index.htm As is often the case particularly with AA History, and perhaps much of history, one document is available where the surrounding documents which establish context are not. I was fortunate enough to have read and transcribed all the documents at GSO and Stepping Stones from this era for a yet unpublished manuscript I've written.
Bill received a royalty, but that Hank did not. (and that Hank has a innocent living decendent that genuinely is in need presently and Bill does not). As to the "porcelain buisness" to which you inquire Hank began a buisness manufacturing Toby Mugs in the late 40's for which Clarence was a salesman. You may recall the large decorative beer mugs often sold in airport gift shops awhile back that had a pirates head as the vessel and a parrot for a handle. There were many other head/handle caricatures that being one example. The letterhead lists "Henry Parkhusrst, Sales Management, Manufacturing, 1270 Ocean Avenue, West Haven, Conn." Interestingly there is no "Inc." or "Co." after his name or the pseudonym "Henry Giffen, Fine Porcelains" on the letterhead indicating that he probably learned the legalities of such use after the failure to register the uncorporated buisness names of Henry G. Parkhurst, Inc., Honor Dealers, Stainox Inc., Sharing Inc. or, until 1940, Works Publishing Company. Note that "Giffen" is Hank's middle name.
entity/people listed under Sales Management. These are, Stanley Ballard and Co, Hand Made Porcelains, and Lumen Kelsey, Sculptured Porcelains. These reflect possible other sales reps besides Clarence although the collection of correspondence indicates the former as more of a resseller. I've been told by a reliable source that the actual small manufacturing plant was near Trenton, New Jersey and was also shown a photograph of it. Hank speaks of kilns in the correspondence. The West Haven, Conn. address is a bit of an anomaly as Hank's return address and cancelled envelopes to him invarialy indicate General Mail Facility, West Orange, N.J. as his place of pickup.
abrasive personalities. This often makes their correspondence somewhat humerous, (depending, of course, on the readers sense of humor). Neither held much back. For example one letter begans: "Listen Snyder; Don't ever write me another letter like this one. I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THIS KIND OF CRAP FROM YOU OR ANYONE ELSE. This is the second time you have shot off at me like this - AND THE LAST."
beers for a few weeks and that he found it negative and quit. This is the only written record I have seen of his drinking during the early 40's thru his death. Interviews years ago I had with his surviving relatives indicated multiple year periods of abstinence followed by binges. He was reportedly abstinent for the entire period of his third marriage to a Houston Oil heiress whom was the "real love of his life". She died of a lung disease and this is where he obtained the money for the $40,000 chicken coup I discussed earlier.
his rights in the book, it is necessary to remember that nobody has the right to illegally deprieve someone of their property because someone is drinking. Of course the situation which Bill found himself was that someone drinking would not be good PR for a book on how to stop. However the agreement that neither would take a royalty deprieves Hank's living relatives of a rightful inheritence. There is a solution to this issue which would cost a fraction of one years expeses paid for the present copyright litigation or alot less than one year's royalty payout to others. -merton --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, > > In 1947 Hank Parkhurst wrote a letter to Clarence Snyder regarding their "porcelain moulding" business complaining that Clarence was "messed up" with AA and other things and was not working the porcelain business. > > What was the porcelain moulding business and why was Hank relying so heavily on Clarence to make the sales? The letter suggests that Clarence might be the only salesman. > > There is another letter to Clarence in 1946 where Hank admits to drinking beer for a couple of weeks so I assume he was still doing this in 1947. > > God Bless, > > Pete K. >
John Doe) From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/3/2006 3:00:00 AM
>airsickness shot with a needle that had been improperly steriziled (that >was back in the days when doctor's reused hypodermic needles over and over
>again). Apparently the person on whom the doctor had used the needle the >previous time had hepatitis. They rushed Ralph to the hospital in >Owensboro, Kentucky, where one of the doctors was an AA member, and the >only physician whom Ralph trusted by now. I am old enough to have been given many shots with reused needles. It is my recollection that normal autoclaving killed almost all of the bacteria and viruses but higher temperatures were needed to kill certain ones like some forms of hepatitis and most autoclaves did not do this, so standard practice of the day did not eliminate this risk. My physician in the period of the late 50s/early 60s had an autoclave that was capable of achieving conditions that completely sterilized the needles.
understanding is that needles used on hepatitis patients were either not used again or sterilized in autoclaves capable of destroying the hepatitis vector.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3024. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: James Houck and AA in Towson From: Rob White . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/6/2006 9:07:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have been reading these entires with some mild amusement. Having lived in the Towson area for most of my life (age 54) and having been a grateful member of AA for over 25 years, I know who this James H is but he is a non-entity to Baltimore or Towson AA. He does not go to meetings and the old timers don't know him (except by the odd
story about him). I learned more about him from the Time Magazine article last year then anything else.
eccentric old fellow that has some interesting stories. But he is no AA icon around here or anywhere else. Rob W. >>> glennccc@sbcglobal.net 1/3/2006 4:50 PM >>> A report from JM to Dr. Ernest Kurtz (author of *Not-God: A History of Alcoholics Anonymous*) on James Houck and the Thursday night AA meeting at Towson United Methodist Church in Towson, Maryland, which was recently passed on to me.
certain people in AA, to talk about "how different" early AA was from modern AA. In the 1930's James did not identify with the early AA people in the Oxford Group. His name shows up on no early lists of people who were participating in their special meetings for alcoholics. So there is no sign that he had any accurate inside information about how early AA actually worked with alcoholics. All he would have known was what was being said by the Oxford Group members who
were hostile to the special mission to alcoholics, and were trying to push the
early AA people out of the Oxford Group. We already knew that. What JM's report does is to raise some interesting questions about James H.'s
claims of being deeply involved with modern AA, and of being an expert witness
on the way modern AA operates. James says that he has "spoken at numerous AA meetings and conferences," which means that Wally P. and others have taken him around to give talks to AA groups. But speaking in front of a large group of people does not give anyone any inside information about how a modern AA group actually works with alcoholics. James H. also says however that "I attended AA meetings at the Towson Methodist church," which is one of his few claims to know anything about how a real AA meeting would operate in the modern period. JM, before visiting the Towson AA group, had first read the material in the Back to Basics website about James Houck and Wally P., and the way Wally has been using a carefully structured questioning of Houck to back up his own claims
about the history of early AA. See http://www.aabacktobasics.com/ In response to Wally's questioning in http://www.aabacktobasics.org/James%20H-Videos-Documentary/questionsforjames h.ht\
______________________________ "Much of the AA program came directly from the Oxford Group. The AA program of the 1940's was similar in many ways to the Oxford Group program of the 1930's.
AA has changed over the years -- today's program is very different from the "original." For the past 20 years, I have been speaking at AA meetings, workshopps and conventions about the "original" program of recovery. My Sobriety date is 12/12/34. I am a recovered alcoholic. I got sober in the Oxford Group as did many other alcoholics including Bill W., Dr. Bob, Fitz M., Rowland Hazard, Victor Kitchen, Charles Clapp, Shep Cornell. I have worked with alcoholics as well as non-alcoholics for the past 70 years. I took my granddaughter to AA meetings in the 1980's. By then AA had already changed. It wasn't anything like
the original program. While I was able to drive, I attended AA meetings at the
Towson Methodist church. There are 3-4 groups that meet there. Over the years, I
have spoken at numerous AA meetings and conferences. Today, I carry the message
primarily by telephone. I take people through the Steps, and I share guidance
with them. From time to time, AA's visit me at the retirement home where I am living." ______________________________ When JM told Dr. Ernest Kurtz that he was visiting that part of Maryland, at Ernie's suggestion he paid a visit to the AA group in Towson to see what that AA group was like, and to see how closely connected James H. actually was to the AA program there. Are the Towson AA people typical of modern AA people in the United States? Was James H. actively involved in their activities, and did he know lots of ordinary everyday modern AA people there in Towson from going to regular meetings with them? Was James H.'s description of Towson AA accurate?
has
been making. Although James H. claims that he has attended numerous AA meetings
at the Towson United Methodist Church, and is very familiar with the way their
AA meetings function, JM could not find anybody at the AA meeting there who even
knew who James was. He found the Towson AA group to be a smoothly functioning AA group which was doing a good job, and getting (and keeping) an awful lot of people sober. It was most definitely NOT some group of ignorant, ineffectual, and demoralized people who knew nothing about AA's Historic Heritage, and who were achieving only a 1% to 3% success rate. Since this was James H.'s only claim to know anything about modern AA practice, it seems very difficult to see where he has been getting all of his negative attacks on modern AA. There may be explanations which could partially rehabilitate James H.'s testimony, but it seems to me that what JM and Dr. Kurtz have discovered needs to be posted in the AAHistoryLovers. So I am simply going to give JM's report to Kurtz as he wrote it: ______________________________ Hi, Glenn! Friends in AA recently sent me biographical information on one James Houck, authored by Wally Paton on the Back To Basics web site, asking my opinion about his role in the development of AA out of the Oxford Group. In the past, I have read a lot of the history, but I am NOT an authentic or accredited historian! I rely on my old friend, Ernie Kurtz, for any needed expertise. Thus, I passed the item along to Ernie, asking for comment, especially on the inconsistency between the claim that Houck has never wanted to be considered an historic figure in AA, yet his long standing involvement in AA in Towson, MD, Methodist Church is emphasized. I am semi-retired, and am now near the end of a three week stay in Bethesda, MD, spending the Holiday Season with our three children, all of whom live in this area. Ernie and I decided I should drive up to a meeting of what Wally presented as Houck's "home AA group", to size the old guy up in person, or at least learn a bit more first hand. On receiving my report, Ernie feels you might find this information of interest. ********* Ernie! I am reporting in as your cub reporter concerning my field trip to "James
Houck's home AA group." I had hoped to report this material in a maiden voyage
onto the AAHistoryLover list. Glenn Chesnut has provided information, and I have
joined, but I haven't figured the interface out just yet. I might send the information I'm sending you now, but maybe next week, if you think anyone else on the list might be interested. It's possible this is all just nincompoopery, and I should just drop this whole matter, instead of sustaining the nonsense.
December
27, 2005, 8:30 PM. There were 39 in attendance, of which 8 identified themselves as "home group members." Most of the rest were young newcomers, as the meeting is a newcomers meeting, rotating weekly through discussion of the first three
Steps. There were 10 minutes of traditional starter material, e.g. How It Works,
Promises, Traditions, announcements. A young woman had been invited in to give a
20 minute lead. One fresh newcomer, one person with a year of sobriety, and one
17 year member talked for 10 minutes each, and that was it. I sought out members with 4, 17, 28, and 35 years of sobriety for conversation. None had ever heard of James Houck, Wally Paton, or the Back to Basics movement. They all told me I must be looking for "_____," age 47, former member until he recently went back to drinking after 20 years in the group. He has apparently come back to AA elsewhere now, but no one knew for sure.
about] might be _____'s father or uncle or other relative. The 35 year man offered to put me into contact with a 41 year group veteran who can no longer make it to the meeting, but who "might know something about all this." I declined, as I needed to get back to Bethesda, and, frankly, I saw little utility to pursuing this matter any more. My own personal conclusion is that Wally's very low success rate numbers cited
for AA seem completely off base and at odds with my own extensive experience in traditional AA in Minnesota and Florida. AA is clearly alive and well, at least in my own environment .... That a man named James Houck put the cork in the jug a day after Bill Wilson did likewise, and that they both found spiritual guidance through the Oxford Movement, is a minor curiosity.
for steering me toward the historical sites you pointed out for me. And I hope you have had a pleasant and uplifting Christmas and New Year. JM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3025. . . . . . . . . . . . Alcohol left in food after cooking From: JOHN e REID . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/3/2006 10:59:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The Editorial Staff: The Grapevine, The Pathfinder, The Reviver, AA Around Australia, NZ Mainstay, Bristol Fashion. Some years ago the Grapevine published the results of a study on how much alcohol is retained in food after cooking. As Russ J who was "AA Number 5" in Australia used the say, "the half truths in AA". Recently I heard some fairly newly sober saying to a gathering of fairly new folk recently, "do not worry about how much alcohol is in the food, it is ALL cooked out!!!!" For the benefit of us all, would you be so kind as to re-print the results of that previous study? All the very best for 2006, Thanks and Kind Regards, John R [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3026. . . . . . . . . . . . Send individual comments directly to the group member From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/7/2006 5:34:00 PM
is no way I can forward a message to another member of the group simply by pushing a button. I would have to cut the message out, and paste it into an email on my own email system and then send that to the other group member. So if you want to contact another group member in order to comment on that person's posting, it would be greatly appreciated if you could look up the other person's email address (which is sometimes time consuming to look up, but is what I would have to do) and send your message to that person directly. I'm beginning to get overwhelmed with multitudes of messages sent in to the Pending Messages board which are in fact messages to other individual group members instead of messages for general posting. I know that in chat groups there are a lot of back and forth messages like that, but please remember that one of the central guidelines of the AAHistoryLovers is that we do not want to function as a chat group. Thanks much! Glenn Chesnut (moderator) South Bend, Indiana, USA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3027. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Data on 3 and 5 year survival rates
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/3/2006 11:21:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The chain of messages on the term "real alcoholic" seems to be straying away from history. There are certain terms that are likely best to avoid in this forum since they tend to lead far more to endless un-retractable debate over semantics rather than clarity. Among those tedious terms are "recovered vs recovering", "spiritual vs religious" and "real alcoholic vs problem drinker or vs whatever." Now having said that, let's try to provide a historical perspective that culminated in the 12and12 (1953) and originated in the Big Book (1935-1939). It is the matter of AA laying out the welcome mat for those prospects who were not low bottom drunks (as were the very early members).
dealt
with low-bottom cases only. Many less desperate alcoholics tried A.A., but did not succeed because they could not make the admission of hopelessness.
this changed. Alcoholics who still had their health, their families, their jobs, and even two cars in the garage, began to recognize their alcoholism. As this trend grew, they were joined by young people who were scarcely more than potential alcoholics. They were spared that last ten or fifteen years of literal hell the rest of us had gone through. Since Step One requires an admission that our lives have become unmanageable, how could people such as these take this Step? Download 13.83 Mb. Share with your friends:
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