Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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> > I regret that the unfortunate prejudice against > literature that isn't conference-approved has > eliminated this any several other good books from > most meetings. I recommend it whenever I can and > sometimes mention it in talks. > > Mel Barger > > ___________________________ > > Note from the moderator: > > See Mel's little article on Emmet Fox at > http://hindsfoot.org/Fox1.html >
++++Message 3349. . . . . . . . . . . . Emmet Fox, black and red and green books, etc. From: Billy-Bob . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/17/2006 11:50:00 PM
Lynn Sawyer, and Glenn C. ______________________________
(backtobasicsbillybob at yahoo.com) When I first came to AA in 1985 I was told by my temporary sponsor to get a copy of the Little Red Book, Stools And Bottles, The 24 Hour A Day Book, The Big Book and the 12 and12. I read Emmet Fox's version of the Sermon On The Mount, but I like the version that Jesus wrote better. (lol)
______________________________ Jon Markle (serenitylodge at bellsouth.net) wrote: When/where I got sober (as they say of these were still being suggested as essential reading (as well as the standard AA literature) Big Book and the 12x12, etc, the little Black Book, Red Book and Green Book, and Living Sober. By sponsors and my home group. One of the things I find appalling in too many meetings today is the lack of suggestions that newcomers read the literature. We always gave out a copy of "Living Sober" to all newcomers, whether or not they came back. And sponsors always made sure their sponsees had the Big Book and a copy of the 12x12, at the very least.
Raleigh
______________________________ From: Lynn Sawyer (sawyer7952 at yahoo.com) Robert Stonebraker (rstonebraker212 at insightbb.com) wrote: Dr. Earl Marsh, in his Big Book story "Physician Heal Thyself," mentions Emmet Fox's then, and still, popular book "SERMON ON THE MOUNT." See page 348 of the third edition of the Big Book. Dear Bob, Thanks for the tip! I FOUND IT!! My 3rd Edition is the one I always bring to BB studies--some of the pages are coming out, and it's all highlighted up, but I love it just the same. Also have a 4th Edition, hard cover, that, admittedly, hasn't seen much (read:enough) wear, yet. Arthur and others, Thanks so much for all the detail about Emmet Fox and his writings and teachings. I've not heard of the Green Book, but the others, I have. I think I'm gonna look for the Little Red Book and Emmet Fox's book, at my local used book store, soon. I used to read from the Upper Room. Think I got it from my Dad, who was a Methodist. I think it still exists today.
Lynn from Sacramento, CA ______________________________
Richmond Walker, who got sober in Boston in 1943, and later moved to Daytona Beach, Florida. His book was sponsored by the Daytona Beach AA group. See http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla1.html and http://hindsfoot.org/rwpix1.html. It and the Big Book were the two most important books in early AA for many years. It is still read from in numerous AA meetings.
(which had a green cover) were written by AA member Ed Webster and sponsored by the Nicollet Group in Minneapolis, Minnesota. See http://hindsfoot.org/ed01.html and http://hindsfoot.org/ed02.html. When Ed Webster wrote "The Little Red Book," he continually consulted with Dr. Bob, who put many notes on the manuscript suggesting additions and changes. This is our best guide as to the way Dr. Bob understood the twelve steps. Dr. Bob sent copies of this all over the world, from Canada to Florida, and also made sure that the New York AA office had copies available for sale until the time he died in 1950.
any work which had been published under the sponsorship of one AA group, could be read from and sold to their members by any other AA group which wished to do so, without need of any further discussion. Issues like this in AA have always been decided by precedent (just as in English Common Law and in modern American law) and not by a small group of people deciding to pass a group of rules. So if you look at AA in the 1930's, 40's, 50's, and 60's, and put together a list of books that were read by AA groups, then on the grounds of precedent alone, these books are can be read by modern AA groups and sold by modern intergroups without even any need of discussion. They are automatically considered perfectly O.K.
40's, 50's, and 60's, not some brainstorm on the part of a small group of modern delegates who come up with some theory and decide to pass rules. We are saved by doing what the good old timers did, not by following a set of mechanical and legalistic rules.
conferences and assemblies to find out what good AA is, we read AA history to discover what really good AA is. "My story is my message" means that the story of early AA is its crucial message, people in the early days witnessing to what gave them sobriety and real serenity of life. When we listen to them, and try to do what they said they did (including read the books which they said they read), we will find that kind of sobriety and serenity ourselves.
glennccc@sbcglobal.net (glennccc at sbcglobal.net)
From: Bent Christensen . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 10:00:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi there Does anyone know which records Clarence is referring to when he make the statement about the recovery rate in Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers, at page 261?
Bent
++++Message 3351. . . . . . . . . . . . One-Day History ‘ Archives Gathering June 24 2006 Lebanon PA From: jlobdell54 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 2:41:00 PM
Lebanon PA registration at 8-9 am invited speakers oldtimers Clyde B (6/20/1946) and Chet H (4/4/1949), possibly one or two others over 50 years, plus Glenn C (Moderator of AAHL and author of several books on AA History), Mitch K (author of HOW IT WORKED and organizer of the Clarence S Archive at Brown), with a panel on the GSO Proposed 1955- 2000 History, and a panel on Writing Local History: the Founders of AA in Eastern PA. Exhibits from several archives. Those interested may contactjaredlobdell@comcast.net for directions.
From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/18/2006 8:42:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Our Big Book Step Study Group in Richmond, IN, spends the first two Tuesdays studying AA history - we show a short movie, "DAWN OF HOPE" and sometimes A HOUSE FULL OF MIRACLES" from Dr. Bob's Home. We make great effort to make these 90 minute sessions interesting. I have learned lot's of interesting little stories about Ebby Thacher, Rowland Hazard, Carl Jung, Rev Shoemaker, Clarence Snyder and all the rest of those early historical participants from non-conference approved materials. Here are listed a few of our current book collection:
* CHILDREN OF THE HEALER, by Bob Smith and Sue Windows * DIARY OF TWO MOTORCYCLE HOBOS, by Lois Wilson, edited by Ellie Van V. * GRATEFUL TO HAVE BEEN THERE, by Nell Wing * HOW IT WORKED, the story of Clarence Snyder, By Mitchell K. * SISTER IGNATIA, Angel of Alcoholics Anonymous, by Mary C. Darrah * NOT GOD, a history of Alcoholics Anonymous, by Ernest Kurtz * BILLW, by Robert Thomsen Here are a few other non-AA history books we use for reference because they were often read by early AA members: * SERMON ON THE MOUNT, BY Emmet Fox * AS A MAN THINKETH, by James Allen * THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD, by Henry Drummond
Conference approved books from GSO . Bob S. ???????????????????????????? -----Original Message----- From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Lee Nickerson Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:28 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Emmet Fox I surely agree. I was fortunate to be Maine's Archivist for eight years and by what seemed necessity, I began to do the unthinkable - read non-conference approved literature. It enhanced my sobriety and allowed me to do my service job in a much more informative and interesting way. I picked up the habit and have been at it ever since. I just finished a book called Drinking: A Love Story by Caroline Knapp - one of the best personal stories I have read in a long time. As far as AA history goes; Not God, Sister Ignatia:The Angel Of AA, Grateful to Have Been There and so many others have made my journey much more enlightened and joyful. Many of the books I have read were recommended by Frank M. the late alcoholic archivist of GSO. He was a truly sweet gentleman and I miss him to this day. lee
wrote:
> > Hi Matt, > I asked Bill Wilson about Emmet Fox and he said > they even attended his lectures in New York in the > 1930s. He also said they read The Sermon on the > Mount.
> > I found my own copy of it in Pontiac, Michigan, in > February, 1951, and have read it ever since. > > Mike E., the second member of AA in Detroit, even > told of reading it while he was still getting well > from his last drunk; he had to rest it on pillow > to hold it steady! > > I regret that the unfortunate prejudice against > literature that isn't conference-approved has > eliminated this any several other good books from > most meetings. I recommend it whenever I can and > sometimes mention it in talks. > > Mel Barger > > ___________________________ > > Note from the moderator: > > See Mel's little article on Emmet Fox at > http://hindsfoot.org/Fox1.html >
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3353. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: quote from Bill re: the stories From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/19/2006 7:53:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII On January 23, 1955 Bill wrote Clarence about the stories being changed in the 2nd edition. Here are some excerpts:
story section of the A.A. book. As you know, the old stories were very low bottom. We then lacked the experience we now have, and we lacked the great variety of cases which A.A. today affords. So among practically all consulted, it seems desirable to broaden and deepen the story section of the book to bring it in line with present-day membership and experience. No change in the text, of course.
instead of twenty-eight stories, there will be thirty-seven. Headed by Doc Smith, they will be divided into three groups of twelve stories each - the pioneers, the high bottom and the low bottom.
from the book, in fact, all the New York ones." (a couple of paragraphs down) "Personally, I hated to take out so many of the old stories. But my reasons were only sentimental, they didn't make sense. The object of the story section is to appeal to as many kinds of drunks as possible and I'm sure that we shall now have a much bigger spread. I hope and believe you will like the result when you see it."
and/or added. Another line I found interesting was: "As you know, maybe one-half of today's incoming membership is composed of milder potential alcoholics..." Even in 1955 Bill recognized that many wandering through the doors of AA weren't really alcoholics YET. It is the same today and those who come to explore or test the waters maybe shouldn't be counted in all these skewed statistics. Too bad Bill didn't address those few who did choose to resume their drinking careers but I guess he felt that Clarence already knew who they were. --- ArtSheehan > Ooops! I attached the wrong reply to Billy Bob's > posting. Here's the > correction. I exchanged the info below with Billy > Bob in a separate > email and would like to offer it for consideration: > > Hi Billy Bob > > I have Hartigan's book. The portion you emphasize > illustrates the > matter of context I tried to address. Hartigan > actually supports the > claim that 50% initially made it yet seems to try to > portray a doom > and gloom scenario for early 1939. Hartigan should > also have cited > Bill W's comments on the matter in 1955 in the 2nd > edition Big Book. > > 29 stories were included in the 1st printing of the > 1st edition Big > Book. 22 of them were dropped in the 2nd edition. > There is a myth in > AA that the 22 stories were removed because the > members had returned > to drinking. It's not true. In the introduction to > the personal > stories in the 2nd edition Big Book Bill W wrote: > > "When first published in 1939, this book carried 29 > stories about > alcoholics. To secure maximum identification with > the greatest number > of readers, the new 2nd Edition (1955) carries a > considerably enlarged > story section, as above described. Concerning the > original 29 case > histories, it is a deep satisfaction to record, as > of 1955, that 22 > have apparently made full recovery from their > alcoholism. Of these, 15 > have remained completely sober for an average of 17 > years each, > according to our best knowledge and belief." > > In the introduction to the "Pioneers of AA Section" > in the 2nd edition > Bill W went on to write: > > "Dr Bob and the 12 men and women who here tell their > stories were > among the early members of AA's first groups. Though > 3 have passed > away of natural causes, all have maintained complete > periods ranging from 15 to 19 years as of this date > 1955. Today, > hundreds of additional AA members can be found who > have had no relapse > for at least 15 years. All of these then are the > pioneers of AA. They > bear witness that release from alcoholism can really > be permanent." > > From the figures in Bill W's introduction, > approximately 75% of the > early members who had their stories in the 1st > edition Big Book were > sober as of AA's 20th anniversary (1955). Even if > half didn't make it, > as asserted by Hartigan, the percentage that did is > still consistent > with early claims of a 50% success rate. > > The 1st edition story authors is the only fully > qualified population > that demonstrates the claims that 50% made it and > another 25% sobered > up again after returning to drinking. > > Cheers
> Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of > backtobasicsbillybob > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:51 PM > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The Exact Quote from > Francis Hartigan's > Book In Regard To Early AA's Success > > "We have to wonder why both the Wilson's and the > Smiths did not simply > > give up. Today the nations best treatment centers > report success rates > > ranging from 25 percent to 50 percent. During Bill's > stay in Akron, he > > and Bob calculated their success rate to be about 5 > percent, and among > > the few who seemed to catch on, not all of them were > able to maintain > consistent sobriety. The first edition of AA's Big > Book, published in > 1939, contains the personal recovery stories of many > of AA's earliest > members. Some years later, Bill made notations in > the book to come off the press, indicating which of > the individuals > portrayed therein had stayed sober. A good 50 > percent had not." > > Francis Hartigan, Bill W., Pages 91-92 > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3354. . . . . . . . . . . . Books Early AA''s Read From: rrecovery2002 . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/18/2006 6:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII You all might be surprised how easy it is to borrow copies of the Oxford Group books and other books early AAs read. My library routinely interloans copies of all sorts of material for me---from university libraries etc. Just ask your reference desk. Some libraries may charge you the cost of postage.
V.C.Kitchen's I Was a Pagan and within a week I was reading a first edition copy. Off the top of my head, I have read early editions of Charles Clapp's books, Peabody's Common Sense of Drinking, Cecil Rose's When a Man Listens and others
From: Steve Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/16/2006 12:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Re: Conference approved literature... Is there any reference within conference approved literature or AA World Services literature about the common group conscience guideline of restricting literature in meetings to only "conference approved literature"?
the often contentious question between newcomers who have not previously come up against the issue and the rest of us. The reflections of this group will be appreciated. Thanks Steve M.
Central Oregon ______________________________ From the moderator (Glenn C., South Bend, Indiana) CONFERENCE-APPROVED LITERATURE A statement taken from service material released by the GSO in New York. From 1951 on, the Trustees Literature Committee, the Conference Literature Committee, and the participants in the General Service Conferences have overseen the content of AA literature which was published by the AA General Service Office.
statement: telling people that they CANNOT read "non-conference-approved" literature violates basic AA policies. -------------------------------- "The term 'Conference-approved' describes written or audiovisual material approved by the Conference for publication by GSO. This process assures that everything in such literature is in accord with AA principles. Conference-approved material always deals with the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous or with information about the AA Fellowship." "The term has no relation to material not published by GSO. It does not imply Conference disapproval of other material about AA. A great deal of literature helpful to alcoholics is published by others, and AA does not try to tell any individual member what he or she may or may not read." "Conference approval assures us that a piece of literature represents solid AA experience. Any Conference-approved booklet or pamphlet goes through a lengthy and painstaking process, during which a variety of AAs from all over the United States and Canada read and express opinions at every stage of production." -------------------------------- Source: http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html ______________________________
at the Alcoholic Foundation in New York (what is today called the General Service Office) wrote a letter to Barry Collins, who had helped Ed Webster in assembling and publishing the Little Red Book: -------------------------------- "Dear Barry, . . . The Washington D.C. pamphlet [a.k.a. the Detroit Pamphlet or Table Mate] and the new Cleveland "Sponsorship" pamphlet and a host of Download 13.83 Mb. Share with your friends:
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