Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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| Excerpt from Indianapolis AA History:
From several sources I will attempt to weave a new, but connected pattern of how AA was started here in Indianapolis and identify the critical people who constitute the threads. Let me quote a description of Doherty Sheerin, the man who founded AA in Indianapolis. J. D. Holmes (who was one of the original AA group in Akron) said in a letter that Doherty Sheerin was: " ... the boy who put AA on the Indiana map. I have always considered him the number 3 man in A.A., a statement I can boldly make after having been closely associated with Dr. Bob and Bill W. And there are others who think the same as I."
and to Bill W. in his understanding of the AA program, Doherty Sheerin was the number three man in AA. Later I will read this letter in its entirety. Who was this spectacular man who had such an affect on my life and on yours? No doubt AA would have found its way to Indianapolis. But the historical evidence seems to indicate this is how AA actually came together in Indianapolis.
Other names that you will hear are "J. D." who was James D. Holmes. He was AA # 8 and lived in Akron, Ohio. His wife was from Evansville, and J.D. and his wife eventually relocated to Evansville, where her family was still residing as this story unfolds. J. D. had started the first A.A. group in Indiana in Evansville on April 23, 1940. The other essential man in this unfolding episode is Irving M. from Cleveland. Irving M. is sometimes referred to as Erwin. His last name was Meyerson. The long time Indianapolis Saturday Evening group still honors him. His final residence was on the West coast.
Snyder, the "Home Brewmeister" in the story in the Big Book (pp. 297-303 in the 3rd edition). He was the dynamo who pioneered the printed word -- pamphlets, advertisements and newspaper articles. Irving Meyerson was one of Clarence Snyder's train of "pigeons" or sponcees. When Irving came to Indianapolis and introduced himself to Dohr Sheerin, he simply said, "I am from Cleveland and I've come here to help you get to work."
a history of AA in Indiana, gives one account of how Irving and Dohr got together. One copy of Dean's history is in the New York AA Archives, and another copy, which seems to be a slightly different version, is in the Indianapolis AA Archives. In the New York version, Dean says that in the Spring of 1940, in Indianapolis, "... a man who had been sober on his own for almost three years read the Liberty Magazine article on A.A. and sent to New York for what information was available, but experienced little reaction from what he received. This man was the late, beloved Doherty S[heerin]. Later in the same year, Irvin S. M[eyerson] of the Cleveland group visited Mr. S[heerin] and took him and a Mr. Barr to Evansville to meet Mr. Holmes. Hope was revived in D[ohr]'s breast, he once told me, so that when he returned to Indianapolis, he soon interested another sufferer in the program on or about October 28, 1940, the date now marked as the founding of the movement in the capital city." End of excerpt - - - [FROM THE MODERATOR: I should say that Dean Barnett was not a very good researcher, and got a number of things wrong in his history of how AA came to Indiana. Dean says that Doherty Sheerin read the Liberty Magazine article and wrote the New York AA headquarters, and that somehow or other Irwin Meyerson ended up coming out to Indianapolis from Cleveland. Dean would get the basic story right, but tended to garble and confuse the details and guess when he didn't know. Many present-day Indiana AA historians think that it is more likely that Doherty Sheerin came upon some of the things printed about AA in the Cleveland newspaper, and wrote directly to Cleveland, where Clarence Snyder asked Irwin to pass through Indianapolis when he was traveling around selling venetian blinds.
Dohr did write New York, and New York sent Irwin to Indianapolis.
in Indianapolis, but immediately took him down to Evansville, Indiana, where the AA leader J. D. Holmes had already set up an AA group. It was J. D. who help Irwin show Dohr how to set up an AA group, and the J. D. Holmes and Doherty Sheerin then set up a highly organized campaign, where they had soon set up AA meetings all over the state of Indiana.
that AA in Louisville, Kentucky, was founded by contact with Indianapolis, which is a straight drive north from Louisville. South Bend, Indiana, where I live, which is up in the far north, is the only major part of Indiana where AA was not founded (directly or indirectly) by the efforts of J. D. Holmes (from Akron) and Doherty Sheerin (who was twelfth stepped by Irwin Meyerson from Cleveland).
begin in New York? From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/15/2006 4:02:00 PM
> >"This year I had a strong sense of being at a >historical event, and I wondered what you all >know about it." > >The December 1944 issue of the GV reported on the >gathering of 1500 people, most of them drunks at the >Hotel Commodore to celebrate the 10th anniversary >of the founding of AA. Bill gave a report on the >first 10 years of AA and a female member also shared. >Fulton Oursler of the Reader's Digest was the >non-AA speaker. > >(The date of the dinner is not mentioned). The N.Y. World-Telegram article quoted by the N.Y. Sun and included in the December 1944 Grapevine article James Blair cited says "last night". I would presume "last night" was in the recent past. None of the responses to the initial query addresses two of the three questions Sasha posed: 1. How did it come to be? [And why late October/early November?] 2. Was it always conceived as a fundraiser? 3. Akron has its Founders' Day [Shouldn't Founders be plural?] on the traditional founding date, June 10th, annually.
it that isn't there. 8^) My wife, late of Long Island, has attended the N.Y. dinner and experienced feelings similar to those Sasha experienced.
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/17/2006 10:41:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Peter Tippett wrote: In a Big Book Study while reading page 66 from my 3rd Edition I read, "We turned back to the list, for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look AT IT from an entirely different angle." "AT IT" or "FOR IT"? I went and checked in my library and found the following differences in the Eidtions and Printings: Page edit./printing Date "at" or "for" 79 1st, 11th June 1947 "at" 66 2nd, 7th 1965 "for" 66 3rd, 10th 1981 "for" 66 3rd, 56th 1996 "at" 66 4th, 14th Sept., 2004 "at"
Edition it says, "Third Edition: New and Revised." New and Revised? I just have a curiosity as to any information surrounding the "at" vs. "for" and the "New and Revised." __________________________ The Anonymous Press has a reproduction of the first edition, first printing, which lists the changes made from the 1st/1st to "modern text." This change, whether accidental or purposeful, is not listed. This comparison list is interesting to read, but be aware that there is at least one typo in it. The Big Book writers, for example, used the terms ex-alcoholics and former alcoholics and these terms were subsequently changed, but I digress . . .
5th, 10th, 11th, and 13th printings all have "at." I checked all 16 printings of the second edition and they all have "for." They all also have "New and Revised" on the spine, even the one that says "Third Edition." The first twenty printings of the third edition have "for." The twenty-second printing has "at." My modest library lacks a twenty-first printing, so I can be no more definitive than that. Subsequent third editions that I checked have "at." My one fourth edition, a first printing, has "at." It does not have "New and Revised" on the dust jacket or cover. I realize this doesn't answer the why question, but I can't answer that. Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3871. . . . . . . . . . . . Hospital records and the date of Dr. Bob''s last drink? From: Russ S . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/16/2006 10:56:00 AM
beloved Dr. Bob I received an email saying he "began his sobriety on or about June 16, 1935."
previous AAHL posts. Has anyone ever tried to check hospital records in Akron to see when Dr. Bob operated and who the famous, um, person was, who had to have a "delicate procedure?" Love and Service, Russ Stewart Hooterville, NJ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3872. . . . . . . . . . . . Early Grapevine article and the word "slip"
From: john.otis . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/18/2006 1:06:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi. Back in the 60s I had a sponsor in Lancaster, Calif. and he had one of the first Grapevines. In it someone had written "Slipping From the Hands Of God," and said that this is what we mean by the word "slip."
roots of this LIFE SAVING PROGRAM. John Otis IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3873. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "at" vs. "for" on Big Book p. 66 From: Charlene C. . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/19/2006 4:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Not sure what you are looking for but from a grammatical point of view, the word "for" makes zero sense in that particular sentence.
austin, tx. Peter Tippett wrote: In a Big Book Study while reading page 66 from my 3rd Edition I read, "We turned back to the list, for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look AT IT from an entirely different angle." "AT IT" or "FOR IT"? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3875. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hospital records and the date of Dr. Bob''s last drink? From: Glenn F. Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/19/2006 11:36:00 PM
By Jim Burwell - The Agnostic http://www.barefootsworld.net/aa-jb-evolution.html Jim Burwell, one of the earliest AA members, says in this little history of AA that he wrote at one point, that Dr. Bob "dates his last drink June 15, 1935."
oral traditions. What you have to do in this kind of historical research is look at all the various oral tradition material, because usually what happens is that each version gets some things right but other things wrong. So the next thing you have to do is look at written sources of information, to see which oral tradition version best corresponds to what can be corroborated from written documents. Given the actual date of the AMA Convention in 1935, Jim Burwell's memory may well have been more accurate on this issue than the date which Bill W. and Dr. Bob tried to reconstruct later on. But the important thing to note is that not EVERYBODY in early AA said that the date was June 10th, as people today tend to falsely assume.
"Russ S" > > Hello Fellow History Lovers, > > Today, on the anniversary of the passing of our > beloved Dr. Bob I received an email saying he > "began his sobriety on or about June 16, 1935." > > I know this issue has been raised in several > previous AAHL posts. > > Has anyone ever tried to check hospital records in > Akron to see when Dr. Bob operated and who the > famous, um, person was, who had to have a "delicate > procedure?" > > Love and Service, > > Russ Stewart > Hooterville, NJ >
++++Message 3876. . . . . . . . . . . . Use of the word "slip" in early AA From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/20/2006 9:22:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Not sure about the Grapevine article but the term slip or slipper was used very early on. In Cleveland, ca 1941 (pre-Grapevine which was published 1944) in the rules for hospitals there is a definition of a "retrovert" or "slipper." That definition is "A man or woman who has been sponsored, and has attended at least one A.A. meeting, then takes a drink, is considered a retrovert, or slipper." Responding to Message 3872 from "john.otis" Subject: Early Grapevine article and the word "slip" IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3877. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: "at" vs. "for" on Big Book p. 66
From: ny-aa@att.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/20/2006 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Looking at the grammar: "We were prepared to look AT IT..." The antecedent of "it" is "The Inventory." Therefore, "We were prepared to look at the inventory..."
The antecedent of "it" is "the key." Therefore, "We were prepared to look for the key..."
makes perfect sense in that sentence. The meanings are different but both valid sentences. You need to figure out what the groups approved and not what someone thought was better. Or did Bill change it himself?
original Fourth Edition version of "Dr Bob's Nightmare," some of the "editors" who try to "improve" the Big Book have yet to master the English Language. Some changes that "sounded right" to them changed the meanings in subtle ways. _________ Tom E
From: "jimlynch279" (jimlynch279 at yahoo.com) I think to say the sentence with "for" makes no grammatical sense is not accurate. If the phrase is "look FOR it from an entirely different angle," the antecedent of the pronoun "it" is "the key", something that we need, must find and will search for by looking from a different angle. If the phrase is "look AT it from an entirely different angle.", the antecedent of the pronoun "it" is "the list," something that we have available for review and will gain more infomation from if we view it from a different angle.
xpd in Pittsburgh -------------- Original message ----------------- From: "Charlene C." > Not sure what you are looking for but from a > grammatical point of view, the word "for" makes > zero sense in that particular sentence. > charlene > austin, tx. > > Peter Tippett wrote: --------------> > In a Big Book Study while reading page 66 from my > 3rd Edition I read, "We turned back to the list, > for it held the key to the future. We were prepared > to look AT IT from an entirely different angle." > > "AT IT" or "FOR IT"? > ------------------------------------------------- IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3878. . . . . . . . . . . . Ebby''s Philadelphia Adventure From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/19/2006 7:39:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Philadelphia and Ebby (Edwin Throckmorton Thacher) As Mel B writes in his book "Ebby": on June 1940 Ebby decided to come to Philadelphia. He arrived at 10 A.M and was drunk by noon. He mentions that the Philadelphia mother group was not too keen to help a New York AA due to some rivalry between the cities. He states they got him situated at P.G.H.(Philadelphia General Hospital).
interview and says the Philadelphia Group, which numbered 75, may not have been too keen to help someone who didn't want it. Ebby got out and lived and worked at a mission similar to the Salvation Army for three weeks. He then worked as a porter at a Philadelphia hospital in the cancer laboratory for three months. The September 1940 Philadelphia meeting list does not show his name. With our involvement in World War Two, a 46-year-old Ebby did not have to worry about the draft and with the shortage of able bodied workers he secured employment with the US Navy as an associate inspector of parts. He arrives on the Philadelphia meeting list dated November 1941 as Edw. Thatcher with an address of Lankenau Hospital. Also sharing that address was a Mr. Art O'C. Ebby went in and out and had no trouble finding jobs crating trucks to ship overseas and at Westinghouse at the steam plant division in South Philadelphia. He also worked for the Red Cross packing depot and worked at the AA Clubhouse at 219 S. 36th Street near the University of Pennsylvania as an Assistant Club Steward (1943).
Street in Philadelphia with a phone number of Kin 9881. The same meeting list has Mr. William H. with the same address and phone number. It is interesting to note that this address is close to the offices of Dr. A. Weise Hammer (see AA Comes of Age pg. 190 and Grapevine May 1957). His wife Helen overheard Jimmy B. in a bookstore trying to sell the Big Book and with a Mrs. (Dr.) Dudley Saul (of the Saul Clinic) introduced him to their husbands. They were great friends to A.A. and introduced us to Judge Curtis Bok, of the Philadelphia Municipal Court and Curtis Publishing, the owner of the Saturday Evening Post.
"Alcoholics Anonymous" by Jack Alexander.) Dr. Hammer was at 323 S. 17th Street and his alcoholic nephew, Mr. Charles A. D. (Dan) M. lived at 237 S 18th Street.
a tape recorded for the Archives of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Intergroup Association recalled an Ebby anecdote. He was at the 36th Street clubhouse with his sponsor George S. (the first open AA meeting in Philadelphia was at his home). He related that he was the first speaker that evening at the closed A.A. meeting and, "after I finished talking I get back in the room and George S. says Ann G. is having a problem. Now, she is one of the few women we have in A.A. at the time. She lived at 23rd and Spruce in a third floor apartment. Let's go down and see if we can help her. So we jump in my car and Ebby was just going to close the meeting. So we went down to 23rd and Spruce and we're walking up the steps and I'm right in front of George. We get up to the third floor and there's a pig-tail light hanging from the ceiling of the long hall. And here's our friend Ann G. walking down the hall with a little mandarin coat on and a mandarin hat and I swear all I can see was bare legs. So I pointed to her for George and he coughed or said something and she turned around and had a bikini on. So we came up to the top of the stairs and Ann says 'Come on into the front room, the living room.' So we walk into the living room and I started to sit on the couch and she says 'No, no, no. You don't do that.' We sit on the pillows. So she took and put out three pillows out on the floor and it so happens I was sitting on the pillow that looked right down the hallway. And as we're talking, and she had a few drinks on board, and as we're still talking I see this man and women coming down the hall all the way to the other end door, open the door and walk in. The man had two big what looked like shopping bags in his hand. They looked very familiar. I'm looking at them from the back. So I say to Ann, 'Where's the bathroom?' She says, 'It's the third door on the right.' So I walk down the hall right past the third door to the end door that had just been opened and closed. I open the door and I walk in and there's our friend Ebby and Emily his girlfriend sitting at the table each with a quart of beer. I said, 'Well what's the beer?' He said, 'Well, it's all right to drink between meetings.'" Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Download 13.83 Mb. Share with your friends:
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