From Jewschool: >Yeah, okay. How ’bout providing a single example in which
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email | website mobius @ 12:34PM | 2004-06-24| permalink well again, if this all comes out that gafni is who you say he is, i will be just as outraged as you are. i'm not trying to defend anyone's actions in that situation. so again, please, don't consider me to be on his side of the fence if the story breaks and he's guilty. i just don't want to condemn a person without being allowed to weigh the evidence against them first. for me, it's a matter of principle, not of protecting special interests. also--i think there's room for your personal "puritanical" ethic with regards to sexuality within judaism. i just don't think you have a right to condemn others who don't conform to the same ideals to which you subscribe. email | website mobius @ 12:46PM | 2004-06-24| permalink arthur forwarded your questions to aleph's exec, but is unsure as to whether or not they'll feel comfortable answering. returning to his alleged defense of shlomo carlebach, he writes: since in our conversation last night you raised questions about my personal attitude toward Shlomo: He was never invited to teach at EC or at an ALEPH event. My diagnosis of him was a diagnosis, not an excuse. You can read the whole thing on our Website under Community/ Sexuality. My diagnosis was that unlike many abusers and molesters, his illness was an excess of chesed, not an excess of gevurah (power-over). It can be very damaging, though many new-age people can't grok the notion that there can be too much "Love" and that it can be destructive & damaging. That is my take on the balance-teaching of the Sfirot. Many Shlomo-followers were outraged that I had criticized him. It is amusing to be told that I erred by dismissing his misdeeds. email | website me @ 1:05PM | 2004-06-24| permalink arthur forwarded your questions to aleph's exec, but is unsure as to whether or not they'll feel comfortable answering. They won't. The most dangerous thing to enablers is the light of days. They're also too busy making calls and getting rabbonim to put pressure to stop news articles on this. returning to his alleged defense of shlomo carlebach, he writes:
What a load of garbage. He owes all of Carlebach's victims an apology. He needs to volunteer some time to work with victims of chilhood sexual abuse because he is clearly ignorant if he thinks this had anything to do with "excess chesed", let alone "chesed". email | website mobius @ 1:28PM | 2004-06-24| permalink see now--that is a matter of opinion, as each individual case of abuse is unique in its own right. not all abusers abuse for the same reasons. and it's quite possible that, as arthur sees it, that his assessment accurately portrays shlomo's case. it's not like he's saying that necessarily is the cause or reason of others impropriety. email | website me @ 1:33PM | 2004-06-24| permalink see now--that is a matter of opinion, as each individual case of abuse is unique in its own right. not all abusers >abuse for the same reasons. and it's quite possible that, as arthur sees it, that his assessment accurately portrays shlomo's case.
It's that combination of both arrogance and ignorance that Arthur should address through an apology and education. It's clear he knows nothing of the subjects nor has an appreciation of the further damage his words cause Carlebach's victims. it's not like he's saying that necessarily is the cause or reason of others impropriety.
He's mityigating the damage and abuse that Carlebach committed. It's obscene. email | website mobius @ 3:17PM | 2004-06-24| permalink welp, according to carlebach's followers he was doing carlebach's legacy more harm than that so-- the man just can't win. damned if you do, damned if you don't. what do you want from him? "shlomo carlebach was an evil man who got too frisky with the ladies, didn't know how to take a hint let alone the meaning of the word no, and thus we should stop singing his tunes and repeating his fables immediately, and forget that he was ever one of our revered teachers!" is that what you're after? email | website me @ 3:31PM | 2004-06-24| permalink No. I want him and his fellow Jewish Renewal Movement leaders to: 1) Fully address the issue of sexual and spiritual abuse within their community. 2) Publicly appologize for their silence and arrogance. 3) To stop promoting Carlebach's legacy and thumbing their noses at Carlebach's victims. 4) Fully and publically investigate Gafni/Winiarz and remove him from public life and working with children and women. 5) Put in place proper and effective mechanisms so women and children will be safer. Is that too much to ask? email | website Tikvah @ 3:36PM | 2004-06-24| permalink What a load of garbage. He owes all of Carlebach's victims an apology. Hey Me, stop putting you're own warped take on things out there as the truth. I'm a victim of Reb Shlomo and I don't think Waskow owes me an apology at all...I found his perspective on the Carlebach situation incredibly insightful and helpful and very healing, so don't you dare speak for me. You obviously have some serious psychological problems, as reflected in your witch-hunt mentality and total obsessiveness (just how many hours have you spent on these blog postings?)...perhaps you were abused as a rabbi when you were young, and if so I'm very sorry, but please stop inflicting your damaged psyche on the world just because you haven't gotten the therapy you so obviously need. (and don't pull out that bullshit about "protecting children"; the rabbis you're slandering don't even work with children). email | website me @ 3:44PM | 2004-06-24| permalink Tikvah:
You defend Gafni by claiming his relation with a minor was consensual (when she says it wasn't). Legally consent WAS NOT POSSIBLE and the victim claims it was NOT CONSENSUAL. In that particular case, he wasn't working with children at the time of those numerous assaults either. But again "Ain Apotropos L'arayot". email | website Reb Yudel @ 4:46PM | 2004-06-24| permalink ME: I assume you endrose the point of the letter-to-Lilith which attacked Waskow for accusing R' Shlomo for an excess of hesed. You seem to be revealing an ignorance of kabbala, not to mention Jewish renewal. Of course an excess of hesed can lead to evil, just as can an excess of gevurah. Balance, my son, balance: That's the message of kabbalah. Does R' Zalman teaching on masturbation lead to child abuse? No more than the haredi world's opposite teachings on masturbation lead to child abuse. email | website me @ 11:19PM | 2004-06-24| permalink ME: I assume you endrose the point of the letter-to- Lilith which attacked Waskow for accusing R' Shlomo for an excess of hesed. You seem to be revealing an ignorance of kabbala, not to mention Jewish renewal. Of course an excess of hesed can lead to evil, just as can an excess of gevurah. Balance, my son, balance: That's the message of kabbalah. The abuse was as a result of a man who had power and women and children who didn't. The abuse was the result of a man who thrived in an environment that let him abuse with impunity. Those around him were aware of his abuses but took no action to stop him or get him any form of help. They too had no chesed let alone an "excess of chesed". It had nothing to do with chesed. To claim otherwise is obscene.
Not my point at all. My point was that he is way out there and the lack of boundaries and professional behavior in the culture of the Jewish Renewal Movement. It's this culture that allowed Carlebach to thrive and now allows Gafni/Winiarz to thrive. email | website me @ 2:23PM | 2004-06-27| permalink For those interested: Rabbi Mordechai Gafni/Marc Winiarz is scheduled to be in the US for 2 upcomming Elat Chayyim retreats: 1) WEEKEND RETREAT JULY 30 - AUGUST 1, 2004 2) WEEK-LONG RETREAT AUG
location and information- Elat Chayyim 99 Mill Hook Rd. Accord, NY 12404 800-398-2630 845-626-0157 Fax - 845-626-2037 info@elatchayyim.org http://www.elatchayyim.org email | website me @ 3:31PM | 2004-06-27| permalink Elat Chayyim Board contacts: Robin Minkoff
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