Proceedings of the national assembly

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Part of building and recruiting new blood for the SANDF is that we need to take into consideration that we need uniformed personnel, both in Africa and elsewhere, to assist in peacekeeping in these countries. And when we send forces we need to train the others to be ready for the next deployment. Therefore we need more soldiers as we cannot foresee what our demands or expectations will be and what we can offer.
While we are deploying our soldiers outside South Africa, we also need soldiers who will defend and protect our developed country in terms of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. The needs and the expectations of the SANDF are becoming more and more, day by day. This needs more money, not only for the protection of our country, but also for peacekeeping, unity, stability and prosperity. We cannot have unity, peace and prosperity in Africa if we still have civil wars, coups and certain African states with coup leaders. We need growth and economic development in Africa in order for the New Partnership for Africa's Development to succeed.
As we speak today, we are hosting a three-day African Summit of the World Economic Forum in Durban for the sole purpose of African growth and economic development. African unity will work if there is peace and stability on our continent. As we speak today, there are still problems or conflicts in some parts of Africa, which reduce potentially wealthy states to basket cases, such as the Democratic Republic of Congo, Liberia, Côte d'Ivoire and the Central African Republic. These are the matters that need unity among nations. As Africans, we need to deal with our own problems. We should not look for help from our colonisers. We should build our capacity and reserves to be able to deal with most of the African conflicts as a continent.
I am also told that the level of support of Africa's growth and economic development will depend on Africa's advances in governance and democracy. Therefore, if there is no peace and stability, there will be no governance or democracy. Based on the above, it is therefore critical that we have an African standby force for peacekeeping in the region and Africa as a whole.
We have to present our force structure and design, which my colleagues will deal with. The other areas that we need to look at or be really considering of if we need our Defence Force to be ready is the question of military bases. Our buildings sometimes are not in really good condition at all. We support the budget. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chairperson, hon members, in this year's Budget the Minister of Finance linked together the twin concepts of freedom and development. He told us that the Budget draws inspiration from the Freedom Charter. The freedom from fear of bodily harm and hunger is the freedom of all our people to participate in normal daily activities. There shall be peace and friendship, says the Freedom Charter. This is the framework on which our defence policy is based. This policy marks a major break with the apartheid defence doctrine of destabilisation and domination.
The 2003 Budget gives priority to reducing poverty and unequal access to resources that are key causes of conflict. As part of the International Relations, Peace and Stability Cluster the Department of Defence is the leading department in the efforts to bring peace in Africa. We believe that without peace and stability, economic development will not fully take off. Conversely, without economic development and justice there cannot be peace. We believe that it is possible to end wars in Africa. Through Nepad Africans are determined to find lasting solutions.
The President in his address on Africa Day made it clear that we are responsible for each other's welfare when he said:
Indeed we cannot afford the slaughter of one African by another, anywhere on our continent. Tutsi and Hutu are African. Hausa and Yoruba are African. Ndebele and Shona are African. Zulu and Sotho are African.
Let me highlight the dilemma we face. This is the problem of striking a balance between expenditure on defence and other pressing national needs. This dilemma is captured in the following quotation:
In effect the most difficult military problem to resolve is that of establishing a security system as inexpensive as possible in time of peace capable of transforming itself very rapidly into a powerful force in case of danger or aggression.
Achieving the correct mix to become a modern and balanced Defence Force on the one hand, but affordable on the other is the challenge that confronts the Department of Defence. The business plan for the Department of Defence for the 2003-04 financial year recognises the dilemma of balancing the need to acquire the optimal level of competencies, technology and organisational structure needed for the defence of our country, and the budgetary constraints. The business plan is therefore guided by the considerations to achieve an excellent strategic direction, resource management, maintain effective combat forces and support forces, while ensuring a high standard of professionalism through effective command and control doctrine, tactics and appropriate technology.
The Department of Defence also recognises that successful transformation is essential to ensure alignment of its policies with those of Government. These are the issues of civil/military relations, transparency, representivity, state expenditure and security. Issues of inequality cause conflict within the DoD and will continue to do so unless they are addressed. To achieve sound civil/military relations the Department of Defence submits its annual reports to Parliament and appears regularly before the Portfolio Committee on Defence. The DoD ensures proper accountability through its Inspectorate General which consists of about 200 inspectors and auditors, the largest among all the departments.
The inspectorate has obtained a high accreditation from the International Standards Organisation in December 2002 and we congratulate the division and its leader. The DoD deems it extremely important to maintain a broad national consensus of South Africa's defence needs and those of peace-support operations, humanitarian assistance and post-war reconstruction. The SANDF needs to be properly funded, as other members have said, so that it is ready, organised, equipped and prepared to support a common objective of achieving peace and friendship as envisaged in the Freedom Charter. Two years ago we sent troops to Burundi to safeguard the returning politicians in that country and not a single one of those politicians was harmed. The SANDF is deployed in the DRC under MONUC. President Mbeki has recently raised concerns about the killing of villagers in the North Eastern Congo and has called for an order enforcing a joint AU/UN force to be deployed in the region.
I had the opportunity recently to visit our troops in Kinshasa when I attended the DRC/South African Women's Peace Dialogue. Despite the challenges our troops face daily, such as the effect of long absences from home, language barriers and the reality of war, their morale remains high.
The UN Security Council's Resolution 1325 calls on all member states to ensure that women are represented in all peace processes and post-conflict reconstruction. We are happy to record in this Budget Vote that women peacekeepers have been deployed alongside their male comrades right from the beginning. They are coping equally well and we can say with pride ``Malibongwe igama lamakhosikazi!'' [Praise the name of the women!]
HON MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Praise!]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: The Chief Directorate on Equal Opportunities intends to engage the Chief of Joint Operations to ensure gender mainstreaming in the training and deployment of peacekeepers and strict adherence to the Department's Code of Conduct which calls for the protection of women and girls from rape and other gender-based forms of violence. We are happy to report that women soldiers are making a special contribution to the peace process in the DRC through their participation in the Inter-Congolese Dialogue. This process was initiated in the Presidency under the leadership of Mrs Zanele Mbeki. The DoD's own programme of involving women in the peace process in Africa continues to grow. This year the African Women's Peace Table, a forum created in the department in 2000 to initiate dialogue among women soldiers and civilian women peace activists will focus on Nepad and the AU. We expect participation by women soldiers from SADC.
Another important development is the production by the Chief Directorate of a draft document that proposes a policy on shared values for the DoD. This will strengthen the existing policies on transforming our department into a fully nonracial, nonsexist organisation. Co-operation with other defence forces in the region on issues of gender equity included an invitation of our Chief Directorate on Equal Opportunities and Affirmative Action from Namibia to assist the Namibian defence force to develop its gender focal point.

Let me turn now to the department's contribution to national skills development. Skills development including life skills is crucial to empower our people to carry out their tasks with confidence and efficiency. The human resources division of the DoD has embarked on a skills development programme to address the issue of the lack of representivity especially in the highly technical masterings of the SANDF. The failure to get the numbers correct could be attributed to the education dispensation of the past which made the availability of properly prepared school-leavers difficult. The Youth Foundation Training and the Siyandiza Aviation Awareness Programme target Grades 10-12 youths from a disadvantaged background to improve their maths and physical science symbols and produce a critical mass of well-trained young people.

Siyandiza aims to increase the recruitment pool for training pilots, navigators, air-traffic controllers and engineers thus helping the air force to achieve its transformation goals. The new South African Air Force Young Falcons Programme targeting Grades 6-12 will be undertaken in partnership with the Department of Education and will create a true air force identity for the participating learners.
Chairperson, the poet Ted Hughes writing about how useless war veterans feel about having served, said in a poem:
The war ended, the explosions stopped.

The men surrendered their weapons

And hung around limply.

Peace took them all prisoner.

This reminds us of the challenge of ensuring that military veterans are assisted to reintegrate smoothly into productive civilian life. Parliament passed the Military Veterans' Affairs Act of 1999 which proposes the establishment of a board to advise the Minister of Defence on issues that concern military veterans in order to improve their quality of life and that of their dependants.
The Service Corps was established in September 1995 to reintegrate ex-combatants into society. A study which was ordered by the Ministry of Defence revealed that the Service Corps was not functioning optimally and had not succeeded in migrating out of the SANDF. We are happy to announce that efforts to migrate the Service Corps into a national vehicle that would benefit the nation are currently under way. This would provide general access to its immense resources such as the Centre for Advanced Training, the CAT, in Pretoria, thus assisting in the development of our nation.
We recognise the need to ensure links with the existing socioeconomic clusters of Government in order to ensure viability of the Service Corps in such programmes as the Emerging Contractor Development Programme located in the Department of Public Works, the capital equipment clustering process in the Department of Trade and Industry, the preferential and targeted procurement initiative in Public Works and other government departments, export initiatives undertaken by DTI and Nepad and supporting institutions such as the CSIR.
Developmental peacekeeping provides the SANDF with a unique opportunity to assist in the migration of the Service Corps, whilst linking into existing infrastructure-related interventions that would support Nepad. Both the CSIR and the Ministry of Defence are currently exploring the viability of a developmental peacekeeping model. In April this year, the Department of Defence together with the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry launched Operation Vuselela to eradicate foreign vegetation on SANDF-controlled land. This project employs only military veterans and is run under the auspices of the Working for Water Programme with funding from the Poverty Relief Fund. The size and scope of the problem of undemobilised former soldiers who generally are young and restless is a problem not only for individual defence forces, but also for the region and the continent as a whole. We cannot sleep peacefully while tens of thousands of unemployed hungry, former soldiers roam around. The welfare of veterans should not be left to the sole attention of the DoD. It was in recognition of this that Minister Ronnie Kasrils and I jointly launched Operation Vuselela.

Previously, I have spoken about the importance of developing a common, national military heritage which integrates struggle and resistance history. To this end we have engaged the Directorate on Military Veterans Affairs in discussion with the Freedom Park Board. We thank Dr Wally Serote, the Freedom Park Board and the Department of Arts and Culture for their continued support. The preparations are under way for the World Congress of Military Veterans which will take place in Johannesburg in December this year. This will be the first time the congress is held in Africa and will provide an excellent opportunity for former African soldiers to meet and put their issues on the agenda.

The Government is aware of the shortcomings of the pensions dispensation for former nonstatutory force members. As announced by Treasury, the Special Pensions Act of 1996 will be amended shortly to rectify the discrepancies. It is expected that this process will be finalised before the end of this parliamentary session.
The SANDF continues to be involved in the fight against Cholera and Malaria in South Africa and in SADC. SAHMS was a key participant in the Rally Against Malaria organised under the leadership of the Minister of Health. The SANDF helped to construct the temporary bridge on the South Coast after it was bombed allegedly by the Boeremag. The SANDF has continued to contribute to internal peace and stability.
I come now to HIV/Aids. HIV poses a special challenge for the DoD from the point of view that the bulk of its personnel fall in the most vulnerable social group of the young, highly mobile and sexually active. The risk of defence personnel on external deployment is heightened by long absences from home. This necessitates more extensive training for our soldiers about the issues surrounding the virus before deployment. The DoD has intensified its efforts to fight HIV/Aids through the Masibambisane Campaign. An advisor on HIV/Aids was appointed in the Ministry of Defence. A total of R4,6 million was spent on the campaign and 71% of the staff of the DoD was exposed to the Masibambisane Campaign. However, we are aware that we have to pay increasing attention to this and the Inspector General will be looking at auditing our programmes to see their effectiveness.
Let me end by saying that in marking the significance of the youth, I have invited my niece who is in the gallery, Sanelisiwe Mtshali, a Grade 9 pupil at my old school Inanda Seminary in Durban. Inanda Seminary produces many leaders including among others our Deputy Speaker Ms Baleka Mbete. The school's motto is: ``Shine where you are.'' The Government is directing policy and resources to enable our youth to excel. I call our youth in and out of uniform to shine where you are.
Mayihlome ihlasele. Masilwe nobuphofu nendlala. Masilwe nengqulaza, ukunukubekwa kwezingane kanye nokudlwengulwa kwabesifazane. Ikusasa lentsha lisezandleni zayo. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] [Attack! Let us fight against poverty and hunger. Let us fight HIV/Aids, child abuse and the rape of women. The future of the youth is in their hands. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr J SCHIPPERS: Chairperson, the Defence Budget framework indicates a growth in all the programmes, except for landward defence that registers a decline of 4,4%. Given the fact that South Africa does not have a huge air or maritime defence capability, I do not think we must scale down our landward defence.

Our defence capability must be our best deterrent to any aggressor. A vibrant defence strategy can also be a vehicle to develop and transform our country and its people. That is why the Defence Budget supports key issues such as health care, land restitution, skills development, and foreign representation.
Die algemene verkiesing van 2004 is om die draai en dit is nie om dowe neute dat die wapenverslag weer soveel prominensie kry nie. Die ondersoek na die wapenverslag word deurlopend deur die DA bevraagteken. Ek wil met die agb heer Beukman saamstem as hy sê dat die groot dilemma in hierdie saga is dat LP's met 'n politieke opdrag na Skoor kom en dit bemoeilik vordering. Vir die agb heer gaan dit in die eerste plek oor die belange van Suid-Afrika.
Die Portefeuljekomitee oor Verdediging moet 'n toesighoudende rol speel om toe te sien dat die veelbesproke wapens gelewer word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows).
[Chairperson, the general election of 2004 is around the corner and it is not for no reason that the weapons report once again features so prominently. The DA continually questions the investigation into the weapons report. I want to agree with the hon Mr Beukman when he says that the big dilemma in this saga is that MPs approach Scopa with a political brief and that impedes progress. The hon member is primarily concerned with the interests of South Africa. The Portfolio Committee on Defence must play a supervisory role to ensure the delivery of the much-talked-of weapons.]
Chairperson, for any country participation in peace missions comes at a price. There is the direct cost. This includes the potentially lifelong psychological scarring that goes with exposure to situations of genocide and massacre. The constitutional purpose of the Defence Force is to defend and protect the Republic of South Africa. The question, however is whether participation in peace missions serve our nation's interests. The link with national interests is the effect on the economy of the subregion and therefore on South Africa's peace, stability, development and growth.
The SA National Defence Force formulated the one-force policy in which the regular force and the reserve force comprise one force for the defence of South Africa. The two components are therefore complementary and essential partners in our defence capability.
There are thousands of disillusioned and dissatisfied members of the old Cape Corps in South Africa who did not benefit from the transitional agreement at Kempton Park. Some of them have started their own fraudulent schemes in which they promise unsuspecting old members large payments if they join their particular venture. There were statements by the New NP in this regard. These schemes impoverish our people even further because the members must contribute on a monthly basis in order to qualify for the payouts. I encountered this in my constituency and discussed it with the responsible military people. I am glad that the Reserve Force Council embarked on a process to get all dissatisfied ex-members of the Cape Corps on board and to engage them in a peaceful settlement.
Mediaberigte van gister wil hê dat 1 Militêre Hospitaal buite Pretoria dalk moet sluit. Dis is as gevolg van 'n brandinspeksie deur die Tshwane-munisipaliteit. Die feit dat só 'n toestand kon ontstaan, moet bevraagteken word. Daar is standaardprosedures wat dit kon verhoed.
Die betrokke hospitaal het in die verlede wondere verrig en met die jongste mediese tegnologie tot sy beskikking, kan hy in die toekoms nog groter mylpale bereik. Ons doen 'n beroep op die Minister van Verdediging en die Geneesheer-generaal, om alles moontlik te doen om die hospitaal tot sy volle glorie te herstel tot voordeel van alle Suid-Afrikaners. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[According to yesterday's newspaper reports 1 Military Hospital outside Pretoria will probably have to close. This stems from a fire inspection made by the Tshwane Municipality. The fact that such a situation could arise must be questioned. Existing standard procedures could have prevented it.
The hospital concerned worked wonders in the past and with the latest medical technology at its disposal, can reach even greater milestones in future. We call on the Minister of Defence and the Physician-General to do everything in their power to restore the hospital to its former glory to the advantage of all South Africans.]
Following the announcement by President Mbeki in his state of the nation address that attention would be given this year to phasing out the commando system and the creation of a new system, there was much concern expressed about the need to avoid a security vacuum in the rural areas.
After extensive research and consultation the New NP launched its own policy proposal document on the transformation of the commandos. The existing commando system has been a semipermanent use of a purely military organisation mainly for nonmilitary tasks. For almost two decades, this unusual situation has continued because it was both inexpensive and convenient. The commandos achieved many notable successes, because in 2001 alone more than 80 000 area actions were carried out including, inter alia, air and vehicle patrols, road blocks, manning of vehicle control points, farm visits and border listening posts.
In sommige dele van Suid-Afrika bestaan daar nou egter 'n opvatting dat kommando's 'n oorblyfsel uit ons verdeelde verlede is en dat hulle optree as agente van verdeling. Hierdie negatiewe persepsie moet aangepak word, derhalwe wil die Nuwe NP 'n nuwe entiteit voorstel.
Die Nuwe NP glo dat 'n koste-effektiewe en onmiddellik implementeerbare alternatief stelselmatig oor ses jaar ingefaseer kan word om die kommandostelsel te vervang. Dit moet 'n dubbeldoelige paramilitêre patrolliemag wees wat 'n geskikte naam moet kry. Ons dink aan Konstabelary, ons dink aan Inkonkoni, ons dink aan Khusela Isizwe en nog ander name. Só 'n naam moet die patrolliemag simboliseer.
Een van die sterkste argumente vir so 'n mag is dat dit nie die werklike legitieme kommer opper van 'n langtermyn- militêre ontplooiing ter ondersteuning van die burgerlike regering nie. Voorbeelde van só 'n patrolliemag word gevind in lande soos Nederland, Italië, België en Frankryk.
So 'n mag moet 'n vredesrol en 'n oorlogsrol vervul. Sy vredesfunksie sal tipies fokus op die beskerming en ondersteuning van gemeenskappe deur misdaadvoorkomingspatrollies, padblokkades, teen-dwelmoperasies, skare- of optogbeheer, grensbeheer en eerstefase-rampbestuur.
Ten tyde van oorlog of ernstige noodgevalle kan die mag met die SA Nasionale Weermag integreer om bystand te verleen aan interne sekuriteit, sleutelarea-beskerming, grensbeheer en die beveiliging van die agtergevegsterrein, die sogenaamde "rear-area patrol". Ander kenmerke is dat dit 'n mobiele, lig gewapende patrolliemag moet wees, bestaande uit beide voltydse en deeltydse elemente van die territoriale reserwemag. Getalsgewys kan dit bestaan uit 20 000 voltydse en 100 000 deeltydse lede.
Die bevelsorde op die nasionale vlak sal begin by 'n aparte agentskap in die Departement van Verdediging, wat onder 'n toegewyde adjunkdirekteur-generaal staan met twee hoofdirekteure. Die bevelsorde moet direk verslag doen aan die Minister van Verdediging.
Die Nuwe NP stel voor dat die finansiering op twee primêre wyses kan geskied: 'n Spesiale toedeling uit staatsfinansiering; 'n aansienlike toedeling uit die winste van die staatslotery. Dit is maklik regverdigbaar omdat die toepassing van wet en orde fundamenteel is vir die behoud en beskerming van die sosiale welsyn wat bereik is deur ander uitbetalings.
Ten slotte, Voorsitter, die idee van die kommando het sy oorsprong in Suid-Afrika. Dit het 'n lang geskiedenis van militêre en kulturele innovering, primêr gebaseer op die integrasie van Khoi militêre taktiek en van die Nederlandse Oos-Indiese Kompanjie. Dit is 'n konsep wat aanvaarbaar is vir die Griekwa, die Namakwa, die Afrikaner, die Basoeto, en die Xhosa. Só 'n mag kan ook sy eie identifiseerbare uniform hê. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[However, in some parts of South Africa a perception now exists that commandos are a remnant of our divided past acting as agents of division. This negative perception must be addressed and that is why the New NP wishes to propose a new entity.
The New NP believes that a cost-effective and immediately implementable alternative can be gradually phased in over a period of six years in order to replace the commando system. It must be a dual-purpose paramilitary patrol force which must be given a suitable name. We are thinking of names such as ``constabulary'', ``Inkonkoni'', ``Khusela Isizwe'' and others. Such a name must symbolise the patrol force.
One of the strongest arguments for such a force is that it does not raise the very legitimate concern of a long-term military deployment in support of a civilian government. Examples of this type of patrol force can be found in countries such as the Netherlands, Italy, Belgium and France.
Such a force must fulfil a role in times of peace and of war. Its peacetime function will typically focus on protecting and supporting communities by way of crime prevention patrols, roadblocks, antidrug operations, crowd or riot control, border control and first-phase disaster management.
In times of war or grave emergency the force can be integrated with the South African National Defence Force to assist with internal security, key-point protection, border control and securing the rear-battle area, the so-called "rear-area patrol". Other features are that it must be a mobile, lightly-armed patrol force, comprising both full-time and part-time elements of the territorial reserves. As far as numbers are concerned, it could comprise 20 000 full-time members and 100 000 part-time members.
The national-level chain of command would start at a separate agency in the Department of Defence, headed by a dedicated deputy director-general assisted by two chief directors, reporting directly to the Minister of Defence.
The New NP proposes that funding take place in two primary ways: a special allocation of state funding and a substantial allocation from the profits of the National Lottery. This is easily justifiable because the enforcement of law and order is fundamental to upholding and protecting the social good achieved by the other pay-outs made.
Finally, the idea of a commando originated in South Africa. It has a long history of military and cultural innovation, based primarily on an integration of Khoi military tactics and those of the Dutch East India Company. It is a concept which was embraced by the Griqua, the Namaqua, the Afrikaner, the BaSotho and the Xhosa. Such a force can also have its own identifiable uniform.]
Chairperson, we will discuss this proposal with all the relevant stakeholders and come forward with a final document. The New NP supports this Budget Vote. I thank you.
Mr S B NTULI: Viva June 16, Viva!
Hon MEMBERS: Viva!
Mr S B NTULI: Chairperson, Minister of Defence Mosiuoa Lekota and other Ministers, members of the gallery and hon members, as we are in the month of June allow me also to pay tribute to the youth of South Africa who fell in the hands of the apartheid regime and the remnants of colonialism. They fell in pursuance of the liberation of South Africa, challenging the effects of separate development policies; fighting for liberation against the imposition of Afrikaans as a medium of instruction; fighting for the establishment of the democratic student representative councils, and fighting against playing apartheid sports so that apartheid and its structures of joint management councils, notoriously known as JMCs became isolated.
To mention a few of these students: Paul Shabangu of Emngwenya College of Education who was a student teacher killed by the enemy along the Swaziland border in 1988 together with three other colleagues; Hendrick Nkuna was brutally killed by the apartheid regime in 1984 at the then Mabopane East Technikon, now the Northern Gauteng Technikon; Thabo Makoela was one of the high school students of Soshanguvhe killed by the police in 1985 - he was a Cosas member; Emma Sathekge, a child killed by the police while playing at her home in Atteridgeville in 1983; Bheki Mlangeni was a Wits law student blown up by the enemy with a hearing device bomb - he was also an Azaso member; Onkgopotse Abram Tiro, a former Turfloop student was also killed in 1974; The Ongoye Massacre of 1983; the Modjadji College of Education Massacre which also left some students dead. The list is endless.
As we celebrate youth month, all the youths who laid down their lives should remind us of where we come from and inspire us as comrade students of today and leaders of this country; and also remind us about the struggle for the total liberation of our country politically, economically, socially and otherwise which has still to be achieved fully. Again to remind ourselves, Azaso adopted the Freedom Charter in 1981 at the congress at Hammanskraal and subsequently changed its name from Azaso to the South African National Students Congress, my alma mater.
Coming to the defence budget, we as the ANC once more wish to acknowledge our leaders for the political role they played in leading the country into Codesa 1 and 2 and ushering in a new democracy we all enjoy today. It was not an easy path yet South Africa chose it. Following the 1994 democratic breakthrough, the apartheid political system and its effects were being gradually demolished and the work begun to establish a new democratic order as we embodied in our Constitution, Act 108 of 1996. Militarily we undertook to set up a military/civic education programme, in view of the different armed forces: the liberation movements characterised by Umkhonto weSizwe and the Azanian Peoples Liberation Army; the statutory forces of the old apartheid regime and its Bantustan armies of the SADF; the TBVC states and the Inkatha military wing.
A military/civic education programme was developed with the objective of instilling respect among members and employees of the defence regarding the values of the new democratic South Africa we wanted. Military/civic education is meant to provide appropriate education and training on values such as respect for human rights, the rights and duties of soldiers, the rule of law, political nonpartisanship, nondiscrimination, nonsexism and most importantly the civil supremacy over the armed forces.
Chairperson, hon members, I wish to inform this august House about what constitutes the curriculum of the military/civic education programme. It outlines the features of the democratic and political processes; the historical background process that resulted in the political liberation and the beginning of the layout of the foundation for the democratisation of our single SA National Defence Force; orientation about the SA Constitution and the Bill of Rights; the civil/military relations issues; the international humanitarian law dealing with matters such as the law of conflict, the respect for cultural diversity and military professionalism in a democracy.
Hon Minister, we commend your department for coming up with this curriculum for it lives up to the aspirations of the people of South Africa as enshrined in the Freedom Charter. There are also other issues that today's budget should cater for. The military ombudsperson is one of them. The White Paper on Defence states:
The military ombudsperson's duty among others would be to investigate complaints against the SANDF by military personnel. It is envisaged that the ombudsperson will address any military personnel matters which cannot be resolved through other existing mechanisms.
This office needs to provide an oversight role over the Department of Defence and the SANDF as a whole. Therefore hon Minister, the staffing and profiling of this office needs to be looked into. This office needs to be accessible to the ordinary men and women of the service. Violation of human rights, acts of power abuse by those in authority and the neglect of law and labour law within the military establishment constitute a plethora of issues within the scope of the military ombudsperson's office. Yet this office is not popularly known among ordinary members of the SANDF.
Civic education programmes should be accessible to all members of the defence right from the chief of staff through to the senior and middle management of command down to the lance corporal; from generals to noncommissioned officers. Military/civic education plays a pivotal role in the transformation of the SA National Defence Force because an uninformed soldier is as dangerous as the enemy itself. Therefore a civic education programme within the Defence Force constitutes a fundamental basic foundation for the military establishment. It was not an error that the ANC during the crafting of the Freedom Charter in 1955, among other things, in clause 8 stated that the doors of learning and culture shall be open to all. This clause signifies the seriousness with which the ANC views the importance of education in a society. Since then it has strived to educate our society, hence the relevance and the importance of the military/civic education programme for men and women in the SANDF in particular, and the members of the Department of Defence in general.
I therefore repeat: An uninformed soldier is as dangerous as the enemy itself. Every soldier must know and understand why he or she is trained and when required he or she is sent to operations. He must be convinced that his mission is politically necessary, politically correct, militarily sensible and morally sound. Hon Minister we agree with your department that whereas the programme appears to have at first been designed for the integration of different forces into one, in actual fact it requires to be continued for the new recruits and aspirant members of the SA National Defence Force.
As South Africa is part of the African continent we are also called upon by the African Union to throw our weight behind Nepad. The New Partnership for Africa's Development poses various challenges. For instance, according to article 4 on the Principles and Functions of the Constitutive Act of the African Union among other things, the union calls upon the member states to establish a common defence policy for the African continent for member states to function with respect for democratic principles, human rights, the rule of law and good governance. Therefore it behoves our forces to understand and internalise this.
Last but not least, I wish to show appreciation of the DoD's preparation of the members of the Service Corps for the life beyond the full-time service period on the SANDF - the strategy of the Service Corps follows a two-path parallel approach. Lastly, we also wish to thank the reserve forces in all the arms of service for the unrelenting efforts when they are being called and that they respond to the call. And lastly I wish to thank you all. [Applause.]
Mnr A BLAAS: Blommetjie, jy raas. Stilte! Agb Minister, die ACDP gaan jou begroting ondersteun. Ek onderskryf heelhartig die kommer wat uitgelig is deur die agb Thandi Modise en meer. Ek dink daar is sekere sake wat aandag moet kry en sy het dit baie goed beskryf. Die tekort op die bedryfsbegroting is volledig gedokumenteer en gemotiveer.
Agb Minister, jy sal baie fermer standpunt moet inneem om meer geld vir hierdie doel te bekom, óf ons sal moet kyk na die tydskale vir die implementering van van die ander beleidsdoelwitte, anders gaan ons nie baie strategiese doelwitte bereik nie.
Ek fokus vinnig op 'n paar aspekte van die reserwemag - wat 'n integrale deel van die weermag is. Erkenning word gegee aan die uitstaande werk in die afgelope 12 maande deur leiersgroepe van die reserwemagte. Ons sal egter vir hulle geld moet gee om hierdie planne uit te voer, anders gaan ons hulle en die weermag in die steek laat. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr A BLAAS: Blommetjie [little flower], you are making a noise. Quiet! Hon Minister, the ACDP will support your Budget. I wholeheartedly support the concern that was raised by the hon Thandi Modise and others. I think that there are certain issues that should receive attention, and she described them very well. The deficit of the operational budget is fully documented and motivated.
Hon Minister, you will have to take a much firmer position in order to obtain more money for this purpose, or we will have to look at the timeframes for the implementation of some of the other policy goals, otherwise we will not achieve very strategic goals.
I shall quickly focus on a few aspects of the reserve forces, which are an integral part of the defence force. Acknowledgement should be given to the outstanding work performed during the past 12 months by leader groups of the reserve forces. However, we will have to give them money to execute these plans, otherwise we will be letting them and the Defence Force down.]
Sir, chaos is developing around the phasing out of the commandos, notwithstanding the undertakings given by the President and the Minister. Various people are creating uncertainty and disillusionment by making conflicting statements. The latest is the wisdom of the National Commissioner of Police.
I would appreciate the Minister's views on this. He says, amongst other things that commandos had their own structures and that they were under no one's command, and that this is not acceptable to the police. The units are no longer part of the doctrine of the South African National Defence Force and are not in the army's force design. He also says some other things.
What a distorted perception and an irresponsible public statement to make. He should rather focus on staffing and empowering his own structures, including the establishment of a reliable and deployable reservist component. Instead, he flutters around like a cat on a hot tin roof, not sure where this responsibility should vest - with either the sector policing, special units or with reservists. He should pay for the defence support, then he may appreciate what it is worth to him.
Phasing out the commandos, not debating its merits, is a sensitive issue that must be thoroughly managed to prevent it from exploding in our faces, leaving us with a security vacuum in the rural areas. And it is not for white farmers alone. These men, 60% of whom are black members, render their services to the deep rural areas with their own specific problems.
Referring to the conventional reserves, we have a five-year window period to save these units. Only leader groups were maintained and limited intakes were trained. The age profile will make them redundant within five to eight years. It takes us seven years to put down an infantry company commander on the ground. We must address this, otherwise the conventional reserves will fall away.
Minister, together we must face realities and ensure that what is required to defend our country stays intact and is sustainable. We should not allow the outstanding work done by dedicated members of the SA National Defence Force to be in vain. [Time expired.]
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, as 'n mens deesdae iets lees van die weermaglees, is dit negatief en sleg. As dit nie die spook van die wapenskandaal is nie, dan is dit die swak gedrag en/of optrede van manne en vroue in uniform. Die ruggraat van die weermag was nog altyd die leër gewees. Die werklikheid is dat die leër op die oomblik die afdeling in die weermag is wat die swakste is.
In die media moet ons lees van 'n infanteriesoldaat wat 'n teiken op drie meter net eenkeer uit 200 skote tref. Op 'n amptelike vraag van my aan die agb Minister bevestig die Minister die geval. Sy verduideliking is egter dat dit 'n eksperiment was wat 24 uur opleiding ingesluit het.
Ek wil vir die agb Minister sê: As 'n infanteris na 24 uur opleiding 'n teiken op drie meter net eenkeer tref uit 200 skote, getuig dit van totale onbeholpenheid en swak opleiding en -vermoë. Ek stel voor die agb Minister begin die troepe eerder oplei in klipgooi en slingervel. Dalk tref hulle die teiken beter. [Gelag.] 'n Verdere onsteltenis in die leër is dat 72% van sy begroting aan personeel spandeer word. Dit is geen wonder daar is nie geld vir behoorlike opleiding nie.

Nog 'n probleem is dat die gemiddelde ouderdom van jou gevegstroepe, volgens wêreldstandaarde, ongeveer 21 jaar moet wees. In Suid-Afrika is die gemiddelde ouderdom bo 35. En die rede? Dit is weens die integrasieproses. Dit is die verduideliking wat gegee is en dan moet ons egter eerlik met mekaar wees en erken dat die integrasieproses nie so suksesvol was as wat algemeen verkondig en gesê word nie.

'n Verdere groot bron van kommer in die leër is dat ongeveer 25% van ons infanterie-eenhede se gevegsgereedheid minder as 50% is. Daar is selfs eenhede wat maar om en by 20% gevegsgereed is. Ek moet vir die agb Minister sê, dit getuig net van een ding - swak dissipline en swak bevel en beheer.
Ek wil onomwonde vir die agb Minister sê: Die Suid-Afrikaanse leër maak ons hele weermag 'n flentergat weermag, en die agb Minister sal vinnig moet optree. Die agb Minister het meer as 80% van sy toespraak vanoggend hier gewy aan die weermag se betrokkendheid in Afrika en selfs aangekondig dat die Regering besluit het om progressief die weermag se betrokkenheid in ons land af te skaal oor die volgende vyf jaar sodat die bronne beskikbaar gestel kan word vir vredesendings in Afrika.
Die agb Minister sê eintlik vir ons dat Afrika nou belangriker is vir die weermag as Suid-Afrika. Ek wil vir die agb Minister en die regering waarsku: Pasop dat die Kongo en ander dele van Afrika nie Suid-Afrika se Viëtnam word nie.
Dit bring my by die kommando's. Die binnelandse afskaling van die weermag verskaf 'n goeie rede hoekom die kommado's eintlik nou uitgebrei behoort te word. Die uitfasering van die kommando's is verkeerd en is 'n strategiese fout. Die koste verbonde aan die kommando's is omtrent R110 miljoen per jaar. [Tussenwerpsels] 'n Goedkoop prys vir landelike beveiliging, maar bo alles 'n goedkoop prys vir 'n mag om op terug te val.
Dit is die kommando's wat ingeroep word as daar gehelp moet word by die Wêreldbekerkrieket, dit is die kommando's wat ingeroep word as daar gehelp moet word by internasionale konferensies. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, whenever one reads something about the Defence Force these days it is negative and bad. If it's not the ghost of the arms scandal, then it is the bad behaviour and/or actions of men and women in uniform. The backbone of the Defence Force has always been the army. The reality is that at this moment the army is the weakest division in the Defence Force.
We had to read in the media of an infantry soldier who only hits a target at three metres once out of every 200 shots. After an official question put by me the Minister confirmed the case. His explanation is, however, that it was an experiment which included only 24 hours of training.
I want to say to the hon Minister that when an infantry man cannot hit a target at three metres after 24 hours of training, it is evidence of total incapability and poor training and ability. I suggest that the hon Minister instead trains the troops in stone-throwing and catapult-slinging. Maybe then they will hit the target better. [Laughter.] A further concern in the army is that 72% of its budget is spent on personnel. It is no wonder there is no money for proper training.
Yet another problem is that according to world standards the average age of your fighting troops should be approximately 21 years. The average age in South Africa is above 35. And the reason? It is as a result of the integration process. This is the explanation that was given and however, we must, be honest with one another and admit that the integration process was not as successful as it was generally proclaimed and said to be.
Another major source of concern in the army is that the battle readiness of 25% of our infantry units is less than 50%. There are even units that are only about 20% prepared for battle. I must say to the hon Minister, this is evident of only one thing - poor discipline and poor command and command control.
I unequivocally want to say to the hon Minister that the South African army makes the whole Defence Force appear shabby, and the hon Minister will have to act quickly. The hon Minister has dedicated more than 80% of his speech here to the involvement of the Defence Force in Africa and even announced that the Government has decided progressively to scale down the involvement of the Defence Force in our country over the next five years in order to make our resources available for peace missions in Africa.
The hon Minister is really saying that Africa is more important than South Africa to the Defence Force. I want to warn the hon Minister and the Government: Be careful that the Congo and other parts of Africa do not become the Vietnam of South Africa.
This brings me to the commandos. The scaling down of the domestic Defence Force provides a good reason for why the commandos should actually now be expanded. The phasing out of the commandos is wrong and a strategic error. The costs attached to the commandos are about R110 million per year. [Interjections.] It is a cheap price to pay for safeguarding rural areas, but above all a cheap price to pay for having a force to fall back on.
It is the commandos that are called up when assistance is required at the Cricket World Cup. It is the commandos that are called up when assistance is required at international conferences.]
What are the reasons, according to the Minister, for abolishing of the commandos: ``Commandos are white structures who operate against black people, therefore they are to be abolished''.
I want to say to the hon Minister: Since 1996, the commandos conducted about 260 000 actions. These were actions like road-blocks and search operations. In the seven years since 1996 only 30 criminal cases were opened against members of the commandos after such operations. In only three of these cases were the culprits found guilty.
These figures must be compared to the cases of racism in the Defence Force as a whole, like the murders at the Tempe base and similar incidents in the police. The Defence Force and the police were not abolished after those incidents.
Ek wil vir die agb Minister sê die kritiek teen die kommando's is onbillik, onregverdig en ongevraagd. Dit is lede wat 'n diens aan Suid-Afrika lewer en wat gesteun behoort te word. Dit is lede wat ook misdaad in Suid-Afrika bekamp. Dankie, Voorsitter. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[I would like to say to the hon Minister that the criticism against the commandos is unfair and uncalled for. These are members who deliver a service to South Africa and should be supported. These are members who also combat crime in South Africa. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]]
Mr L N DIALE: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson and hon Minister of Defence, Comrade Mosiuoa Lekota. I want to acknowledge the presence of our glorious army, the SA National Defence Force. [Applause.]
Ke leboga go tšeya karolo mo ngangišanong ye ya Sekhwama sa Masole. [I have pleasure in participating in this Defence Vote.]
Deputy Chairperson, in many countries across the globe the social welfare and care of those who served their countries during times of strife and conflict have been the responsibility of the state. The nature of assistance given to war veterans has taken on various forms such as pensions, education, medical care and employment opportunities.
Let me emphasise the challenges facing our own SA National Defence Force. Over the past eight years, the SA National Defence Force has set about trying to build an integrated Defence Force, a new military culture and policies appropriate to democratic society.
One of the crucial challenges of our democracy was the integration of seven different military formations into a single SA National Defence Force, representative of the demographics of the country. It also meant that training had to be uniform, with a code of conduct and uniformity of purpose. The process of demobilisation was, to some extent, dependent upon whether force members were able to reintegrate successfully into society. It has to be noted though that former combatants have enormous difficulties in finding employment because of lack of skills and education, or as a result of ill-health and psychological problems.
I would like to remind this august House that whilst we all, both black and white, fought for bringing about the political liberation of this country there is a component of combatants within our society which played a more significant role - the soldiers. These soldiers, many of whom were serving in the SANDF as well as those who have been integrated from the liberation movements, namely Umkhonto weSizwe and the Azanian Peoples Organisation, have since resigned or have been demobilised. However, I would like to make a special plea to all who sit here today, and those South Africans listening, that we should consider these men and women, lest we forget their contributions. Can we acknowledge via the Defence Budget their sacrifices and their commitment to the people of this country?
The ANC's 51st National Conference held last December resolved as follows:
That urgent attention be paid to the reskilling, development and integration into society of ex-combatants of the liberation struggle, ex-SADF and ex-SANDF personnel, veterans and the youth on a multipronged basis involving relevant departments and stakeholders in civil society.
That there is a need to explore the extension of medical services through South African Military Health Services to members of former liberation forces and to expedite the implementation of laws enacted to facilitate access to pensions for the nonstatutory forces' members.
I need to remind this House that, as liberation forces fighting and engaging the oppressor, many combatants were denied the basic necessities such as medical aid. Many of these selfless soldiers were spread all over the country and the continent, and some were even abroad fighting in the trenches; fighting for freedom and for the total liberation of our country from the injustices of apartheid.
Today we rejoice in our liberation and freedom. However, this rejoicing comes at a price. Many of these selfless combatants are currently homeless people without the necessary shelter of a home or the necessary health services such as medical aid. Presently, no organised social welfare services are rendered to the former members of nonstatutory forces. This is because they have no fixed place of abode and do not have a source of income since the Special Pensions Act only caters for those who are over 60 years of age.
Hon Minister and hon members, surely, such a situation demands that a comprehensive and needs-driven service is rendered to former nonstatutory forces veterans. We appear to be lagging behind in fulfilling the resolutions adopted at the ANC National Conference in Stellenbosch.
Another crucial issue I wish to highlight is that of the special pension for nonstatutory forces. Once more, we commend this Parliament for passing the Special Pensions Act of 1996, which provides for pensions to be paid to ex-combatants, activists of the anti-apartheid liberation struggle. The aim was to provide some compensation to those who fought against apartheid and who were unable to make adequate pension provision. It is essential that these pension payouts take into account not only the service period when these combatants joined the SA National Defence Force in 1994, but also for the period when these combatants joined their respective liberation movements.
Hon Minister, a question that needs to be asked in the light of the serious circumstances facing many former combatants is this: Why should the members who need the money now wait until they are 60 years of age to access it? Why can't they receive the money now to invest it as they deem fit? There needs to be a better understanding of the plight and needs of veterans. The argument goes that many MK military veterans are men and women who were prepared to fight to their death for the liberation of their country. The Government and communities have therefore to ensure that these heroes and heroines receive the care, support and appreciation which they have earned in their service to this country.
In keeping with this need to redress past injustices, may we in the ANC commend the Cabinet's decision on the approval of South Africa as the next host of the General Assembly of the World Veteran Federation to be held in December 2003. It is hoped that this forum will enable all to formulate appropriate policies, benefits and programmes that would seek to enhance the lives of veterans. I thank you.
Ke le leboga ka kudu. [I thank you very much.] [Applause.]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Malibongwe igama lamakhosikazi! [Praise the name of the women!] Deputy Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, it is comforting to note that we have a strong body of defence securing the security of the South African people.
The objectives of the SANDF display this security in marking the sector's duties as being to defend against aggression, promote security and support the people in South Africa in the many ways it has undertaken to do so.
The MF applauds the department for its many rescue missions, such as the 24-day rescue mission in the Antarctica mid-last year. It was, however, reported mid-last year that only 3 000 out of 76 000 soldiers of the South African army could be deployed as many were unfit or too old and only four tanks of our 168 tanks could be used in action. HIV/Aids has also been reported to have infected 60% of soldiers, with seven out of ten deaths in the army being Aids-related.
This is extremely distressing, noting the importance these soldiers play in the defence of the South African people. It is hoped that the budget allocated to this department for this financial year will be utilised effectively to better the mentioned statistics.
Training should be intensified to ensure the fitness of our soldiers, with regular medical checks. We should perhaps borrow training strategies from countries displaying a stronger defence force to do so.
It appears as if HIV/Aids has not spared any faculty. The MF feels that the department should embark on an initiative with the Department of Health to reduce statistics of HIV/Aids infected soldiers. Aids is weakening our economy, and now our Defence Force. Members of the Defence Force should be motivated to manage their health and fitness effectively as their duty and responsibility to the Defence Force.
Further, the air force is also reported to have fuel shortages. The MF hopes that hese loopholes will be filled by the budget allocated and has confidence in the department's commitment to delivery. Hon Minister, may you and you department and our Defence Force be blessed with the good health and strength so that our country can be well protected. [Applause.]
Mr E N MTHETHWA: Deputy Chairperson, perhaps one should start first and foremost by responding to the hon Schmidt and say to him that with regard to what he has raised about the Minister, I just want to remind him for the record that the Minister has appeared before the ethics committee, has apologised, was fined, and the matter has been concluded. It actually shows that he took the podium without any issue.
The ANC supports the Defence Budget Vote. At its 51st national conference in Stellenbosch, the ANC reiterated its resolve for a speedy transformation of the state machinery, and the SANDF is key to this project. The aim of the Department of Defence Human Resource Strategy 2010, is to ensure that the right quantities and quality of human resources are available in the right places at the right time and that they are effectively, efficiently and economically managed and administered.
The strategic goals of the Human Resources Strategy 2010 strategy are to rejuvenate the SANDF's human resources composition with young, fit and healthy members who will fulfil operational utilisation needs; achieve an affordable HR composition; adequately resource and utilise the regular force and the reserve force; replace the current SANDF service system with a new service that will reduce personnel expenditure and optimise force level flexibility; improve HR service delivery and finally retain the required operational and functional expertise.
The integration of the former statutory and nonstatutory forces, many of which were once enemies, is a powerful illustration of the Government's commitment to national reconciliation, unity and transformation. To be able to achieve this, the DoD needs funding to retrain, reorientate and provide intensive bridging and supplementary programmes for these forces. The overarching goal is to establish a new institution which is professionally efficient, effective and broadly representative. Representivity refers to the racial and gender composition of the army and to the fair integration and equitable representation of the constituent integration forces at all ranks.
Failure to meet this goal will critically undermine the legitimacy of the army in particular and the DoD in general. Thus far, the process of integration has not been easy or without hiccups. Numerous problems and grievances have emerged and at times have given rise to serious tension. Many of these difficulties were inevitable, given the political and logistical complexities of merging forces. Nevertheless, the DOD is committed through constructive interventions to properly manage and in future prevent such tensions.
The DOD acknowledges the responsibility to secure the legitimacy of the armed forces and as such is committed to the goal of overcoming the legacy of racial and gender discrimination. It will ensure that the army, and its leadership in particular, is broadly representative of the South African population to avoid or minimise the situation where largely white personnel, especially in the middle and higher ranks, are predominantly in the leadership of a predominantly black and African force.
The DOD acknowledges the right of women to serve in all ranks and positions, including combat roles. To be able to achieve the above responsibility, the DOD under the close leadership of the Minister of Defence has put in place programmes on education, training, development of black officers, service, women and other previously disadvantaged personnel. Appropriate strategies in this regard include special education and training courses, career development plans and re-orientation of recruitment and promotion systems. This is one area which needs fast tracking with specific reference to specialised mastering.
The DOD wants its HR composition to be competently managed. The organisation and the individual must have an HR composition which is effective, efficient, economical, equitable, motivated, productive and professional. It is, therefore, developing an institutional culture and an occupational ethos based on professional conduct as well as military professionalism in the case of uniformed personnel, service delivery, individual empowerment and pride in the organisation and its common values. These transcend all potential historically derived from devisive factors.
The DOD recognises that its output depends on the contribution of each individual as well as the collective efforts of the organisation, therefore individual empowerment. The determining factors of the Defence Force's operational effectiveness, is that the bulk of its deployable personnel should be young, fit and healthy. The DOD and SANDF cannot afford to reach a situation where its deployment potential is impaired as a result of the continuously increasing age of the bulk of its deployable personnel.

To address that, it is important for the SANDF to continue with its recruitment of young people, particularly in the range of ages 18 to 22 in order for them to be trained and become part of the new army. The existing scenario is that the army has members who - predominately are in the range of 30 to 60 years of age. This implies that the bulk of deployable personnel are ageing. These age parameters by far exceed the optimal international ranks age norm for lower ranks in particular. The effect of the age imbalance is that services, particularly in the South African army, carry significant numbers whose effective deployment potential is restricted as a result of their age.

In 1999, the health status of the SANDF personnel was registered as a strategic issue. There is a particular concern regarding the effect of the HIV/Aids pandemic, most prominently, on the external deployment capability of the army as well as the effect on the cost escalation of maintaining personnel who cannot be utilised. The most immediate health status challenges from the HR perspective includes the continuous, comprehensive, quantification of the pandemic.
In conclusion, accordingly, the South African army has been transformed from the former Big Brother in the region and continent to being a beachhead in the project of Africa's regeneration. Therefore, its HR strategy has to take into cognisance this role. It is important to embrace this obligation and task which goes with our positive contribution on the continent, particularly peacekeeping efforts, because if any region is unstable in Africa, there will be no stability in South Africa. In fact, our country will be forced to contend with the heavy influx of people from their countries to ours. Inevitably, this will lead to unpredictable population density in the country, which will impact negatively on the reconstruction and development programme.
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Deputy Chairperson, I remember on Robben Island sitting and talking to comrades, who included the Minister of Defence, about how, after liberation, we would involve ourselves in matters concerning the African continent - how we should shoulder the responsibility of influencing thought processes to actualise Nkrumah's dream of the United States of Africa.
I remember discussing sacrifices that were being made by the front line states, as well as the OAU, to get us free. We then committed ourselves, body and soul, to assist with the process leading to the emancipation of Africa. This would involve the formation of an African peacekeeping force to protect the hard-won freedom of African people.
Our Defence Force is on the road to actualising this dream. This is a dream of shaping a peaceful, developing Africa free from poverty, hunger and conflicts. Our Defence Force's involvement in peacekeeping activities, whether in Burundi or the Democratic Republic of Congo, has the utmost blessing from AZAPO. To AZAPO, this is our duty, firstly, to ourselves as Africans, and, secondly, as human beings who cannot sit back when other human beings are suffering. [Applause.] Needless to state that Africa shouldered the responsibility to free us through the OAU Liberation Fund. It is indeed our turn to do those things we can to advance the African agenda.
Our country has proved that it is more than ready to serve Africa. Despite the legacy of apartheid and colonialism, in the short space of time - since the majority of our people assumed the responsibility of democratising the country - we have addressed ourselves boldly to the task of laying a foundation particularly for the African peacekeeping force. To the members of our armed forces, AZAPO supports you. We are proud of you. The way you serve your country and Africa makes us proud. AZAPO supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Brig Gen P J SCHALKWYK: Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, Chief of the SANDF, chiefs of staff and other senior officers present, due to the time constraint I would like only to address two specific grass-roots aspects.
In the first instance we have a Defence Force that is struggling to manage itself with its inherent problems and the financial constraints imposed on it. We must realise that during demobilisation there are three very relevant factors which must be borne in mind. Firstly, what are you going to do with your defence industries when there is no longer a requirement for their products? Secondly, what is the impact going to be on communities when military bases are closed down? Thirdly, and this is the one as far as I am concerned that is very relevant, how are we going to integrate our redundant soldiers into civil society?
The army specifically is sitting with a major problem. It is forced to spend a large chunk of its budget on unproductive soldiers. It is generally accepted that to keep 1 000 sick, lame and aged soldiers on full strength costs us in the region of R60 million annually. If we have 10 000 of these soldiers it would cost us R600 million. And this all comes from the defence budget.
This is not solely the problem of the army or the Defence Force. This is the state's problem - it is a national problem. And the executive must attend to this. The Deputy Minister did address this in her speech, but it is important that we give impetus to it and monitor the progress made.
The second subject I wish to address is the case of military veterans. The assistance to veterans of MK and APLA has now been finalised. What remains to be attended to, is the plight of what I have defined as the neglected veterans who served in the old Union Defence Force - the hon Middleton is one of them - and the SADF, and in the TBVC forces. Most of them are destitute and without jobs. They spent years and years in the service of the government at the time with no opportunity to contribute to a pension fund, nor did they have the money to subscribe to a private annuity fund.
Minister, you and the chairperson of the defence portfolio committee have in this House acknowledged the existence of this problem. Minister, thank you for granting me an audience, and arranging for me to brief the Military Veterans Advisory Board on this matter. They have subsequently met with veterans in Kimberley and in Cape Town, and intend visiting groups in the Vaal Triangle, Port Elizabeth, Durban and Karoo.
Once they have gathered all the information the question that arises is, so what? They have done some very constructive work and must be complimented on it. Since these meetings - and this is very important, Minister - there has been no protest marches against the President, or against the Minister of Defence. But we have to do something with the information gathered. The advisory board can only advise, but it cannot resolve problems.
Minister, I would like to make a proposal to you to establish a dedicated office for these veterans. This office is to be similar to the office that served the MK veterans with similar functions. I know that you will tell me that there is a Veterans Administration Directorate, but I can assure you that with their present structures they will not be able to cope with this huge problem. Once this office is functioning I will feel that we have really achieved something important as far as these veterans are concerned.
Just finally, I would like also to mention that the conference of the 24th congress of the World Veterans Federation in December of this year will hopefully make more people aware of the plight of the veterans in South Africa and the world in general. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Thank you, Chairperson. In the beginning the hon Schalkwyk was also in the election mode, as I listened to him, but later on he made a valuable contribution and I'm pretty sure that he may be entertained in the proposals he made.
Voorsitter, ek het nou vanoggend die voorreg gehad om na die agbare Schmidt te luister. En ek wil dit nou hier sê dat hy 'n baie verstandige man is as hy in 'n komitee sit, maar die moment wanneer hy opstaan om te praat, gebeur daar iets met hom. Ek wil voorstel ons moet hom laat sit en praat in hierdie Raadsaal. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dis reg, dis reg, my vriend, want dan lewer hy goeie bydrae. Hoe meer ek na hom geluister het vandag, agb Voorsitter, hoe blyer was ek dat die DA nie die mag het om besluite in hierdie land te kan neem nie. Hoekom? Wel, ons sou totaal 'n flentergat weermag hê. Dit sal niks beteken nie, want hulle wil nie 'n sent spandeer om toerusting aan te koop nie. Nee, hulle wil nie toerusting aankoop nie en hulle ondersteun ook nie diplomatieke inisiatiewe om vrede in Afrika te kry nie. So, hulle bly maar getrou aan hulle "fight back campaign" en sê die konflik in Afrika kan aangaan, maar hy moet net nie na ons toe kom in Suid-Afrika nie. Ek wil vir hom sê, "Slaap lekker, Rip van Winkel. Jy gaan wakker word." Want trouens, meneer die Voorsitter, hulle ondersteun aan die einde van die dag nie eens die begroting nie, want hulle is ``soft on security''. Hulle was dit hulle lewe lank gewees. Hulle sal dit hulle lewe lank bly. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Baie dankie, my vriend. Ek gaan vir jou 'n toespraak hou en as jy die verstand het om te luister na wat ons vir jou sê, mag jy dalk 'n positiewe stap in jou lewe neem en mag jy dalk positief in hierdie land raak om 'n beter horison te skep vir geslagte wat nog moet kom, Dominee. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, now this morning I have had the privilege to listen to hon Schmidt. And I want to say here and now that he is a very sensible man when he sits in a committee, but the moment he gets up to speak something happens to him. I want to suggest that we allow him to sit and talk in this Chamber. [Interjections.] That is right, that is right, my friend, because then he makes valuable contributions. The more I listened to him today, hon Chairperson, the more pleased I was that the DA did not have the power to make decisions in this country. Why? Well, we would have an army which is in tatters altogether. It would be no good, because they do not want to spend a cent on buying equipment. No, they do not want to buy equipment, and they do not support the diplomatic initiatives for peace in Africa. Thus, they only remain true to their fight back campaign, and say that the conflict in Africa can continue, as long as it does not come to us in South Africa. I want to say to him: "Dream on, Rip van Winkle. You will have to wake up''. Besides, Mr Chairman, at the end of the day they do not even support the budget, because they are soft on security. They have been like that all along. They will remain like that for the rest of their lives. [Interjections.]
Thank you very much, my friend. I will make a speech for you, and if you have the sense to listen to what we are saying to you, you might just take a positive step in your life and become positive about this country in order to create a better horizon for the generations still to come, Reverend. [Applause.]]
Reference was also made to the special defence packages by the Democratic Alliance. It was predictable. It's an election thing. Cook it up, attack the Minister, link a lot of things together and here we are with a diabolic ANC. But what I did not hear them say is how the expenditure decreased on the SDP because of the strengthening of the rand.

Nee, nou's julle stil. Dit pas julle om stil te bly. Maar as die rand verswak, wat julle wil hê moet gebeur, want julle is nie patrioties in hierdie land nie, dan roep julle perskonferensies, dan vertel julle hoeveel miljoene verkwis en verkwansel hierdie Regering. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[No, now you are quiet. It suits you to keep quiet. But if the rand weakens, which is what you want to happen, because you are not patriotic in this country, then you call press conferences, and then you report on how many millions are squandered and thrown away by this Government.]
Let's put the SDP into perspective. The South African limited acquisition of defence equipment has attracted much attention - more than often, very ill-informed, especially from the DA. The SDP only benefits the navy and the air force - and this, while one of the major components of the Defence Force, the SA Army, has an urgent need for a wide range of modern equipment. It is important to understand the reasoning behind this ANC-led Government's decision to recapitalise the Defence Force, as well as the intended use of that capital equipment.
The fact is that in the final years of apartheid we saw and witnessed increasingly intense civil disobedience and low levels of guerilla activity in South African townships. The consequence was that the budgets were then shifted to favour the army, but more especially the police, and then more especially the counter-revolutionary social expenditure that we arranged for them.
The net result was that the main equipment of the navy and the air force was willingly allowed to be run down. I say this, because the DA is continuing in their destructive fight back campaign whenever they refer to the SDP. Not only must we question their logic and their patriotism, but we must challenge that. They should in this election campaign answer, to themselves and to this country, whether the armed forces are sufficiently equipped to play the role they have to play. We all know that the answer to that is no. But we also know that the DA is also not equipped to be a government - not by far. [Applause.]
The DA projects itself as the safe haven of classic liberal values. The truth, however, in this debate is that the DA reinforced itself as a small, minor opposition party, stripped of its moral rectitude, complaining forever from the sidelines. [Applause.]
In the final analysis of the SDP, it must be said that the South African Government has driven a hard bargain with the defence manufacturers to obtain weapons at a reasonable price with exceptional offsets for South Africa. The value of counter-investments can never be questioned. Not even the DA, if they have 1% of the economic brains will question that. But they are so immersed their fight-back campaign that I'm afraid that gang will never be able to understand this. [Interjections.] I've now paid enough attention to you.
For a country just nine years into the open season of democracy we are not only doing well, we are also setting examples of international standard. The world and current situations are dynamic. They're not cast in stone. No prediction or analysis of danger is static. Let me say, danger lurks everywhere and can strike at anytime. No nation can afford the luxury of being unprepared. We have a duty to plan and budget for the rising levels of insecurity in the world and specifically in our region. And this reality the DA will never be able to escape.
At the centre of this debate is whether this country should have a defence force. Undoubtedly the answer is yes, because we carry the responsibility of maintaining law and order in our country, the region and on our continent. This reality compels us to look at how the Defence Force should be equipped and funded to fulfil that responsibility. If we are to protect our shores from human sharks intent on bleeding our sea harvest and we intend to fulfil the role we are playing in Burundi, the DRC and elsewhere, we must accept the reality of our time. And this reality is that the levels of insecurity have risen throughout the world.

The macro picture of defence force planning and resource allocation starts with a percentage of the GDP which is devoted to the Defence Force. We've heard speaker after speaker today saying that it's insufficient. The reality is that in real terms we are at the level of 1975. The adjustment in the Defence allocation started in 1990 and that was long before the dawn of our new democracy. And then in 1990 we anticipated the resolution of South Africa's internal political problems by shifting the budget. What an error of judgement!

The dawn of our democracy, almost a decade ago, bears witness to the fact that the global balance of forces have changed remarkably over the last decade. In fact, the recent emergence of the African Union and Nepad are placing further opportunities and challenges before us. South Africa has a role to play in the overall development in Africa and of our region. In fact, the dawning of our democracy makes South Africa vastly more powerful in the region and in the world.
The successes of this ANC-led Government's domestic and foreign policies have resulted in wide involvement in peace missions in Africa. The Defence Force is and will remain an invaluable instrument of the state, helping to ensure peacekeeping, peace supporting and peacemaking on the African continent. We, as the ANC, are proud that the Defence Force is on the march. It's on the march for peace. It's on the march for development and it's on the march for prosperity. [Applause.]
Participation in peace missions comes at a price, because not all expenses are covered by the United Nations and other sources. But despite these expenses, peace missions and peace building are much cheaper than outright war. This, these people will never understand. This is why we say that these peace missions as well as the Defence Force as a whole should be measured by the results achieved rather than by the amount of money we budget. And I'm calling for an increase in that budget that we have. It is in this context that we have to address one of the common misconceptions and misperceptions regarding peace missions.

Peace missions are relatively free of risk - this is a perception - are in fact just a sort of stepping up of policing activity in another foreign country. We should know that this is not the case. There are many risks in peace missions. They usually take place in highly charged situations where the peacekeepers are often hugely outnumbered and far from normal resources of combat, logistics and support. Peacekeepers are liable to be confronted by many ambiguous and potentially explosive situations and we as a country expect of them to act and react in such a manner that we continue to contribute towards diplomatic conflict resolution initiatives.

In fact, our expectations are great because the success of the Defence Force operations could provide disproportionately huge positive results in our country. In short, the defence system must always be attempting to sense the right direction for the future in order to achieve the purpose for which it exists. What we as politicians ought to do is to ensure the correct balance between defence policy, the situation on the ground and the situation internationally. We have to budget sufficiently to ensure that we have sufficient resources and equipment.
The African Union and Nepad signal Africa's true emancipation from outside interests. It would therefore be ironic to leave the peace and security agenda in the hands of non-Africans. The growing consensus is that Nepad needs a bodyguard to protect and support it. And this urges us to deal with the levels of insecurity and insufficient budgets. If this means that we have to make bold decisions - let's do so.
I'm proposing that we relook at the percentage of the GDP we allocate to Defence, peacebuilding and peacekeeping operations in Africa. This would ... [Interjections.] ... Mr Chairperson, if people don't understand what you say you will never convince them. Sir, we have to turn the tide. And by turning the tide the whole of Africa will eventually inherit the virtues of democracy, justice, peace and of harmony. This will make us first - not last. Thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Deputy Chairperson, in responding I would like to recall the presence of the hon Norman Middleton here, and the point he made, which I think is vital for our country to keep in mind, and that is that the country must always be ready to defend itself. There can be no compromise on the question that the country must, day and night, be ready, be prepared. We cannot dabble with and risk defence.

The hon speaker who followed me here made the point that a fair amount of defence expenditure has gone to the Strategic Defence Package. That has not been an accident of history. This House has determined the needs of the country with regard to defence, social expenditure, etc, and it has placed an obligation on the executive to deal with the distribution of the available resources, to address those needs of the country. The amount of resources available for defence purposes could only enable the Defence Force to address the needs of the navy and the air force.
There is a calculated risk built into this, because the command structures of the Defence Force realised that, given what was available, they could only partially address the needs of the Defence Force. It was therefore tactfully and consciously decided to allow our landward defences to hold out and prioritise these other areas. This explains why over the past few years whatever allocations have come to defence have addressed these areas of the Strategic Defence Package, the Air Force and the Navy.
This does not mean that the command structures of the National Defence Force are not alert to the landward needs that exist. Had this country been in a better position, had it had more resources to devote to defence, we would have simultaneously addressed the landward defences. The command structures of the SA National Defence Force are anxious to address the issue of landward defences, but Cabinet and the Government, can only allocate at the present time as it has done.
I raised the issue in the main address here this morning. This country is spending 1,6% of its GDP on defence. I want to give members of the House some idea of what the situation is, even in the post-1989, post Berlin Wall collapse period. A country such as the United States, which is really threatened by nobody, as things now stand, spends 3% of its GDP on defence. The United Kingdom spends 2,4% of its GDP on defence. Egypt spends 3,2% of its GDP on defence. Nigeria spends 4,5% on defence. It is one of the key peace support and peace enforcement agencies of our continent in West-Africa. Nigerians are devoting 4,5% of their GDP to peace support operations in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Ivory Coast. Algeria spends 6,8% on defence. Botswana, nextdoor to us, spends 5,5% on defence purposes. Namibia, our sister country, spends 3,6% on defence. South Africa spends 1,6% on defence.
If you look at the obligations we are asking the men and women of the command structures of the National Defence Force to improvise on, in order to meet the missions that this country has to meet across the continent, it is difficult to understand how they are able, so tactfully and efficiently, to strategise, to keep that critical balance that enables the Defence Force to continue to meet its obligations. But it is because they also understand the logic that guides this nation, that there are critical social needs to be met, needs in other areas, because of our country's history. A point has been made by one of the speakers here, hon Groenewald.
Hy het dit reggekry om hier te kom, lekker te preek en grappies te maak oor die weermag, en dan uit te stap. Hy het my geheimsinnig 'n briefie gestuur en gesê hy vra om verskoning maar hy kan nie wag om na my antwoord te luister nie. [He succeeded in coming here, sermonising and cracking jokes about the Defence Force, and then walk out of here. He mysteriously sent me a note and said he apologised but he could not wait in order to listen to my reply.]
What was his argument? His issue is that in my speech this morning I said that we should prioritise work in the subregion at the expense of South Africa. This was his point. He said: ``I warn you: You must be careful that the DRC does not become the Vietnam of South Africa.'' Well, he speaks Afrikaans most of the time.
I wondered to myself whether he just read that phrase and never really worried about what it meant. Vietnam was an imperialist war, by a nation occupying another country, not invited by that country. They were there for purposes completely in conflict with the purposes for which we are in the DRC. We have been invited by the people of the DRC. We did n't decided to invade that country; we have been invited by them to come and help them calm the situation and create an atmosphere in which they can therefore negotiate a settlement and implement decisions they, the Congolese, have taken. Indeed, the Congolese have come to this country, to Sun City, Johannesburg, Pretoria, to sit here and say: ``Give us an opportunity, give us a room, to sit and negotiate.'' We are there in a completely different manner.
This empty warning, that we must be careful that it must not become the Vietnam of South Africa, has no place. It is rhetoric which means nothing. I want to take the point a little further. When we consider the issue of stabilising our region, we must consider the implications of not doing so. Not long ago, South Africa was playing against one of the countries of our region. When we went into the stadium, one of the South Africans who was in our company said: ``There are more people from this other country here than South Africans, and yet it is our national squad versus their national squad.''
The reason was that large numbers of the people who were in that stadium were here as genuine refugees from the conflict in their country, anxious that peace must return to their country, so that they, like we ourselves in the years of exile, may find their way back to their homeland. And they were there supporting their country, even though they were in South Africa. They were there supporting their country to show their ongoing patriotism and loyalty to that country.

We have an obligation to assist with creating a situation in their country that will enable them to go back, not only for their sake, but most importantly, for the sake of South Africans. When you budget here for health, for prisons, for hospitals, you don't budget for refugees - you budget on the basis of your own populace. Yet once these people are here, if they get arrested and go to prison, the prison population increases in numbers. Once they are in prison, the food supplies in those prisons must cover them. The medical supplies in those hospitals must cover them. Indeed, you must also have free transport for them if you are going to take them back.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Minister, wind up. Your time has expired, but I will give you a few moments to wind up.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: A few more minutes. I think the point has been made. In closing, I do want to pay tribute, though, to the Defence Secretary, to the Chief of the South African National Defence Force, to the command structure of the Defence Force, and to the men and women of the Defence Force. I think that we must pay tribute to those South Africans who have been deployed in those missions and have come back, and to those who are deployed there today, and to those who will be deployed in future.
As the hon Pandelani Nefolovhodwe has said, it has always been an idea that seized many of our generation, that when the right time comes, we will contribute to the unification of the people of our continent. We will create an atmosphere of peace and stability, that, led as we are at the present time by President Thabo Mbeki, Africa may be able to chart a path on the Nepad basis towards peace and prosperity. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.

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