Name: Nik vWurzbach City, Country: Düsseldorf, Germany Sent
Download 1.71 Mb.
|
Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 11.57 AM - 7/3 2001 Jim - thanks for putting your point across so well. I must admit that my view of Ireland is coloured by my family background and the desire to escape too many alcohol-fuelled nights and fights, my Catholic upbringing, and the right to decide what you do with your body and with whom. Ireland is indeed changing, but I also fear it might be for the best. Dublin just seems to be on the roundabout that London was on in the mid-80s - chasing its' tail to try and open the most fashionable bar, restaurant, club, whatever. I personally don't think that is the road to go down either. I'm trying to find the Ireland I know is there - peaceful, serene, soulful, relaxed, open and honest. As you say at the end of your message - let's forget about the past. There's no better message than that. Peace, Pat. 
Name: Jim Country: Dublin, Ireland Sent: 11.36 AM - 7/3 2001 Pat, I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment of the Irish as less tolerant in the areas you mention. But abortion, racism and homosexuality were not at the core of Ramon's staurday night experience. My experience of Dublin is that homosexuality is very well tolerated, and my gay friends I think would agree. Ireland's epxerience of immigration is so new (we were still exporting people in their thousands until the late 1980s) that the jury is out on how successfully this country will be at transforming itself into a multicultural society. Certainly recent events in Oldham etc do not reveal Britain as the guiding lightr of tolerant nations. As for abortion, it remains the big radioactive topic in Ireland. A lot of people find the issue a moral problem, and one has to respect that. I was on the abortion boat that arrived from Holland recently and my experience was that the 'tolerant' campaigners attempting to force the issue here. The hard sell of Ireland of the hundred thousand welcomes I think is a Bord Failte one. Every country's tourist office promtes its nation abroad. If anything, the Irish try to live up to it. Again I agree with you about the influence of the Catholic church, which even you would have to admit has waned spectacularly in the last 15 years. but it won't disappear overnight, and my feeling, as someone who is not a member ofthe church, is that it might be sad for Ireland to go down the purely secular road of the UK. Beliefs foster community, which Britain lacks in my experience of living in Manchester, London and Glasgow (which incidentally are all fantastic towns, people - I'm not dissing them here, just drawing a distinction). I think that the Ireland you are describing - priest-ridden, insecure and intolerant is an Ireland that is at least 5 years out of date. One wonders if you get back over here much these days? You might just be surprised. And as for the central issue - Ramon was invited to stay in cork by the girls. On Saturday night there seems to have been a situation which led him to get upset. None of us were there, so we don't know exactly what happened, and neither Ramon's report nor the postings from the girls present make it any clearer, so it is impossible to jusge for sure where fault, if any, lies. By the sounds of it, the girls were very hospitable, and Ramon certainly acknowledges this elsewhere in his report and his posting the messageboard. Whatever really happened on Saturday is probably lost in the mists of time already, and best forgotten by the lot of us. Be good everyone...
Name: Dave Country: Ireland Sent: 11.24 AM - 7/3 2001 Pat, when you lived in Ireland, exactly which rock did you live under?
Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 11.08 AM - 7/3 2001 Okay - thanks Jim and Peter for your comments. My point was as follows: As an Irishman living in the UK, I simply find the UK more tolerant. More tolerant of the choice to have an abortion. Towards homosexuality. Toward people with a different skin colour. Towards having the right to say "no" to an alcoholic drink and not been seen as "odd" or "strange". I was also questioning the whole heavy sell of Ireland being this country full of laughing, happy people. In my experience it can be, but I also find it very parochial, bigoted, and aggressive. Maybe it's the weather - a lot of time it's totally grey, dark and miserable. Maybe it's the over-bearing and hypocritical Catholic Church which is full of freaks who fiddle with kids - FACT. Maybe it's the troubled history - the Famine...will it ever be forgotten , I ask myself? Ireland can be a leading country in the 21st Century, but maybe it has to shed the shackles of its' past. But I go back to the fundamental point I made of this affair: True hospitality is making your guest feel totally at ease. I do feel the girls were excited by being with Ramonand just wanted to show him a good time. That is a lovely sentiment - but the offence taken when he chose to write his true feelings were embarrassing. They, and Ireland as a whole, should be big enough and confident enough to take a few knocks without taking offence at everything. Isn't that the root of a lot of Irelands' current problems (either in the family home, or on the International stage)?
Name: Carol Country: UK Sent: 11.03 AM - 7/3 2001 Ramon, do you ever say sorry when YOU have done something wrong ??If not , now might be a good time to start, so as you can continue your journey !Having been to Ireland , I was shown the utmost respect and warm welcome so much so , that I just NEVER wanted to leave! I am in total agreement with jouralist Jim.I think you ought to slow down a bit and make your journey a quality time and not quantity! Still wish you all the best , and hope this makes a better person of you at end of it all .Read Rudyard Kipling's ( IF)
Name: Peter J L Country: USA Sent: 10.50 AM - 7/3 2001 (Pat from UK )..I actually agree with you re: alcohol problems , but lets not leave this to Ireland , take a look at a lot of countries !! I personlly think , he had a little media attention and it went to his head , and if he cant say CIVIL things , constructive criticism , he should perhaps - make his way BACK TO THE NETHERLANDS, as I dont think anyone in USA will stand for his arrogance, so I think he really ought to go home and learn some manners man! I see he was RUDE to the people of South Africa BEFORE he started out!! I know a few people will be withdrawing their offer to you RAMON - I AM ONE OF THEM !I think I will offer someone who deserves to be offered a plce to stay !I shall email you to say forget it !!
Name: Journalist Jim Country: Dublin, Ireland Sent: 10.41 AM - 7/3 2001 As the only other person to have spent a saturday night with Ramon in Ireland so far, I thought I'd intervene in an attempt to inject some sanity back into this discussion. Firstly, to Pat who keeps telling us he's Irish but lives in the UK and likes to abuse the whole country - no one said that Ramon was forcefed alcohol. As a journalist who specialises in health, I can confirm that the alcoholism, suicide, domestic assault and depression rates in the UK are across the board identical, if not slightly higher than in Ireland. And both countries are less affected by all those issues lower than certain parts of continental Europe. Keep your self-loathing sentiments to yourself. Secondly to the girls down in Cork - it must have been gutting to read the report as it was written. I can imagine that you felt that your hospitality was totally betrayed. Ramon is a nice guy, but I get the sense that there was more to Saturday night than has emerged in his report. I suppose you can write it off to experience. Be careful who you meet over the internet! To Ramon, this is the problem you have posed yourself as a journalist, doing this project. If you show the due thanks to people who house you and feed you and look after you, then perhaps the journalism will be a little banal. Of course your readers are delighted to see some negative reporting, but how much of that is respect for your honest opinion and how much is them baying for controversy and exciting writing? The other consideration is that if you are negative too often, people will stop inviting you. Who wants to be pilloried online? Anyway, best of luck and keep on trucking the lot of you. I'm outta here...
Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 10.24 AM - 7/3 2001 re: Ramon and his Saturday night What the Hell is going on? Leave Ramon alone.
Ramon, alcohol was not a huge aspect of Sat night, we had a three course meal, we were dancing and you had three pints of Budweiser and one Smineroff Ice - not exactly grounds for going all wobbly and off centre. Seems to me you got the heave ho on Friday night and couldn't handle the rejection. You were only supposed to spend one night, but you wanted to stay two, so that is why I agreed to be your host on Sat night, it was for my friend and not you. SO THE CONCEPT OF LET ME STAY FOR A NIGHT IS NOT REALLY WORKING! REACTION FROM RAMON: I did not ask to stay an extra day, it was offered me because of Sat-night's dog races.
Name: Linda (Smiley) Country: Ireland Sent: 9.46 AM - 7/3 2001 Ramon,
What the hell is up! You are not telling the whole truth as you put it. You said to me that you were tired and I offered you a bed at my house. I even told you that I would drop you to Fionas the next day to collect your gear. So don't put down the Irish hospitality. Everyone on Saturday night couldn't have been nicer to you and especially Fiona. I know Fiona for the past 2 years and shes the nicest, friendliest person you could meet. And lets be straight she'd have to be to put up with an arrogant, selfish person like yourself. I'm fuming,I can't believe you wrote such a bad report. I was there on Saturday night and you looked like you were having a great night or is it the way with you, that what you see is NOT WHAT YOU GET? Very Disappointed Ramon!
Name: Pat Country: UK Sent: 9.34 AM - 7/3 2001 John from Ireland makes some interesting points: "If you can't get on with the Irish, you DO have a problem"... Is this really true? It is true that there is a great tradition of Irish hospitality and friendliness but it must be said that the Irish - as much as any other country - can suffer from drinking far too much alcohol, taking offence at the slightest remark against them, and being generally aggressive and using aggression to gain results. How many fights were there in pubs across Ireland on Saturday night? How many wives and girlfriends were abused through the effects of drink? How many severe mental problems like depression and suicide are caused becasue of this "great" drinking culture? On all counts - a LOT when you read the figures. If Ramon didn't want to drink to excess that should be respected, not belittled. He is actually brave, not rude, to write his honest feelings and post them for all the World to see. Many people feel the same way. They are just too scared of offending. Let me just say that I write this as a Irish man.
Name: John Country: Ireland Sent: 8.36 AM - 7/3 2001 RAMON-I have been looking thro a few of of the messages here and also your reports ...and I do see an element of arrogance ! In one country you said "men with their crappy cases" not nice ..in another after the lovely Devon Hotel ...you said of the next place "ah this is better than being bored " like the last place ...How Rude ! You do KNOW the difference ? You have chose to do what you are doing , without all these very kind people , you wouldnt be able to do it ? Sometimes "LEAST SAID SOONEST MENDED" If you can't get on with the Irish , you DO have a problem!mate!
Name: Jim Country: Ireland Sent: 8.00 AM - 7/3 2001 Read about your night out with Fiona, seems your pretty much of a nancy boy when it comes to having a few pints....should have stuck with children's drink, like water
Name: Brian Country: South Africa Sent: 6.32 AM - 7/3 2001 Hi Ramon
Well, your evening the other day was quite an experience! But then, this is all part of the greater learning curve, to see how other people live. I must sympathise with you, I would also never have made it with Fiona et al. Some people just have a stronger alcohol tolerance than others. I hope that your future hosts are at least trying to remember all these things, like what you like and don't like, so that some compromise can be reached with what happens to you. You want ot learn, but not at the expense of your health. Keep on, Ramon, we are all behind you. All the best Brian
Ramon, I read your June30 report and it was a bit shocking. However it was the first time things got a bit negative, so probably I am just spoiled with all the happy stories you have written before. I know the Dutch a bit and they are not such a great drinkers as the Swedish, Germans or Irish can do - so just keep your mouth closed at certain times. I think everybody should just has to relate the story to a thing that has happened and everybody learned from. There is absolutely no reason to call names to Ramon, because he is currently the only one on this complete planet, who travels around the world on invitation of other people! At least a little respect, folks! Reg, Ann.
Name: Merlinda Country: Netherlands Sent: 9.11 PM - 7/2 2001 I know Ramon personally and I admire his memory...
Name: Chris Country: UK Sent: 8.54 PM - 7/2 2001 Ramon, I think you're expecting too much of your body to cope with all the travelling, constant late nights AND such a large intake of alchohol every night -especially as you've just got over an illness too. I think you sounded quite "run down" in the latest report. You said when we spoke, that you are generally a happy person and get along well with most people, but it didn't sound that way in this report. I thought you were great (we really enjoyed your company) but you don't give such a good impression in this report. I think it was more to do with you drinking too much than your host's attitude. Don't forget you can always say NO THANKS to the drink and just think of the stories we miss out on because you couldn't remember them!
Name: Ramon Stoppelenburg Country: Ireland Sent: 8.49 PM - 7/2 2001 Well everybody. My mailbox shows thumbs up about finally some negative experiences, while the guestbook shows a lot of Irish backing up my previous host. I did not intend to upset anybody in my June 30 report, I only told the full truth and I won't bother about inches and metres. That's just what happened that day after a wonderful and a grateful day with a lunch and dinner and free cigarettes, for which I DO AM thankful. But the rest that night was how it happened. Ramon.
Name: Big Mick Country: UK Sent: 6.49 PM - 7/2 2001 Ramon - what have you done? Have you upset your Irish hosts?! I''ve yet to read this "report" but it doesn't sound good. Look son, all you have to do is apologise and buy drinks all round and I'm sure it will be fine.
Name: Michael Country: Ireland Sent: 4.48 PM - 7/2 2001 Ramon, you leech! Get a job! I hope you say nice things about Fiona Dunne because I know that girl and she's not a langer! In fact she's quite a flah! So work that out!!!!!!!!
Name: Adrian Moloney Country: Ireland Sent: 4.41 PM - 7/2 2001 Ramon,
By the way we came out with £170 on Saturday not £71.80 and as for getting serious about dog racing you and I both know money IS a serious business!!!!!!! Name: Alan O'Brien Country: Cork, Ireland Sent: 4.13 PM - 7/2 2001 My God Ramon! Its looks like the Irish drink and company has got to you old boy!.
Nice to know that you great respect for the Irish hosts, NOT!. Was it Niamh that you were after? as Fiona, I would believe could noe be interested in you at this point? Regards, Alan a Corkonian
Ramon,
Name: Fiona Country: Ireland Sent: 3.16 PM - 7/2 2001 When in Rome do as the Romans do! Irish people do look after their guests. Sat night after a feed of drink does not turn us all into Linford Chrisites! 20 meters Ramon style is about 20inches!! Tell is as it is not how you want to sound...dramatic!
Name: Juut (de Groot) Country: Netherlands Sent: 2.08 PM - 7/2 2001 Hi ramon! Wish you all the best from a sunbathing Groningen. I hope you will get over that hangover, somewhere today... Black coffee doesn't work, as you probably know... Better take some icecreams!! And, by the way, are you ever going to visit the North of Holland?? I can show you some tulips you have never seen before..! Lots of love, juut
Paul, as far as I can see ahead I'll be visiting South Africa somewhere around October this year... If nothing comes across anywhere else... Ramon.
Name: Paul Country: South Africa Cape Town Sent: 10.36 AM - 7/2 2001 Hi man...... Hope you are going well ??? Let us know when you plan to come to SA. Rather later this year , during summer. Tchao
Name: Karen Country: USA - Texas Sent: 4.33 AM - 7/2 2001 Back to check on your progress Ramon, and I must say you seem to be doing really well. Such beautiful hostesses in Ireland!!! I sure hope you behaved ;)
Name: Emery Country: Seattle, WA, USA Sent: 1.42 AM - 7/2 2001 CONGRATULATIONS WITH YOUR FIRST TWO MONTHS!!!! You probably get congratulations with every 10 days following up the last and you probably will go on for a couple of years. I really hope you will! Emery.
Name: HS Country: The netherlands Sent: 6.59 PM - 7/1 2001 Ramon,
Name: Wendy van der Laan Country: The Netherlands Sent: 4.40 PM - 7/1 2001 Hi Ramon, I really like this website, and I think you're doing the coolest thing by traveling this way. Such a great idea how did you came up with it? I was quite suprised to read that you've been to Paignton, UK. I have been there last summer to follow a language course in Torquay and stayed with a host family in Paignton for a couple of weeks. The beaches there are quite nice aren't they, especially the peers. Reading your reports made me relive that holiday again! Anyway I wish you all the best on your journey and keep writing, I will certainly keep reading! Best wishes,
Directory: media media -> Applications to Drill media -> Unicef voices of Youth Chat Theme: Children and aids nigeria and Zimbabwe 13 October 2006 Background media -> Tsunami Terror Alert: Voices of Youth media -> Biblical Eschatology Presentation by: D. Paul Beck May 4, 2016 Ground Rules media -> Guide to completing the collection using the Omnibus system media -> The milk carton kids media -> Events Date and Location media -> The Gilded Age: The First Generation of Historians by H. Wayne Morgan University of Oklahoma, April 18, 1997 media -> Analysis of Law in the United Kingdom pertaining to Cross-Border Disaster Relief Prepared by: For the 30 June 2010 Foreword media -> Cuba fieldcourse 2010 Download 1.71 Mb. Share with your friends:
|