0. 2 Description 3 Credits
Download 5.74 Mb.
|
| If you are engaging big battles on land early I really feel you are doing something wrong. A competent player will win against your armies since you are basically fighting without decent battle magic so getting swarm is not a top priority for me.
You are right that nature-5 pretender is needed if you for some reason need the mother oak, but then you need to go for ench5 aswell. personally I would get low nature on my pretender in order to get the moonvine bracelets (sp?) at some point (also various items/summons that need nature in combo with other paths). Sure then I would not get the mother oak as soon but its not so criticall anyway, since you usually get 20 nature or so per turn anyway after all your haruspex casts. Personally I invested heavily into conjuration when I played them last, you get spells that is just awesome in the water like shark attack, various good summons and later water queens and maelstorm global, and I find this path more needed than alt to be honest. -> Nitpick: Kokythiads are 'she' not 'he'. If you are going to cast Leviathan with them, see if you can do it at the Water Solstice, for 50% off. It's supposedly a rare site, but I've seen it pop up every time I've been in the water. Transformation: IMO this spell is still teh suck. Every time I've tried it my mage has just died. Not that I tried it very much after the first few times. If there was just a chance of affliction, I could handle that, but instadeath? That just bites. Merman Priest: Don't forget to site search with these, Ancient Temple of the Deep are frequent and H1 and give S1W1. Bishop Fish: Can be used to smite MR5 Krakens and MR8 Sea Serpents. -> Mother oak is alt-5, there's no need to go for ench early. I think merms are not a good way to go initially because of a number of factors regardless of if you get friendly currents. Even with production scales you're going to be horribly resource constrained as to how many you can recruit and their encumbrance makes them not terribly viable until you've got something that can lay out damage faster than their staggering fatigue mounts up. To be sure there's different ways to play most nations and I wouldn't begin to try and convince you that what you're suggesting could not also be effective, but I think we've got two different philosophies. You're looking to play a slow methodical turtling strategy involving clamming and long term investments. This is rather a classical way to play MA Oceana and relies on having complete water domination to comfortably fortify. My outline is a much more hybrid-amphibious approach which plays on different strengths and sets you up to be a solid land power from the beginning as well as a water power. I disagree that you can't be competitive on land very early using the strategies I outline here, particularly if you're smart about how you expand. Are you really going to declare war on me (Oceana) in order to snatch 3 provinces before you get to the coast and our defacto new border while setting yourself up for constant siren harassment and coastal raids by troops that have no problem at all wiping out your PD? It's also a bit of a strawman to attack my suggestion of swarm, that's obviously not what my priority was, it's a bonus you pick up when you get wooden warriors and mother oak which is very useful in some situations you'll run into early game. I understand you played an effective game focusing on conjuration, but there's more than one way to play effectively. Also, though I didn't spell it out it's obvious from the rest of what I wrote that conjuration is a close second after alteration. I also don't think you're really seeing the big picture with the mother oak/llamia queen plan. Yes, you have a solid nature income without the mother oak, but I'm suggesting spending a massive ammount of nature gems to transform scores of mages, summon dozens of llamia queens, not to mention the fact that every fairy queen you can scrape up is pure gold. If you can't find a good use for every nature gem then I think you're doing something wrong. -> But Baalz, Have you actually cast transformation much? Even with a Luck-3, I seem to end up dead about 10% of the time, and feebleminded about 20%. And there are even more circumstances in which you end up with rather useless forms. Thats a pretty high opportunity cost - plus the mage action, plus the gems - and frankly I don't think you can really afford a +3luck +3magic design. -> Well, the thing about transformation is it completely removes upkeep cost. The upkeep cost of a unit is 1/15th it's cost, so if you transform 15 mages your upkeep savings will give you gold for a "free" replacement every turn. I don't know what the failure rate is, but if it's 10% (and you ignore the gem cost of transformation) then it pays for itself in less than two turns. That is to say if you have to pay for a replacement mage 10% of the time you can do it with the upkeep savings after a turn and a half. This also discounts the fact that the mages after the transformation are significantly more powerful if you plan to use them on land. The failure rate is further dropped if you just stash those upkeep free feebleminded dudes somewhere until you've got a bunch of fairy queens sitting around to heal them. As to the A5, that's a bit of a judgement call but I was thinking about wind ride when I did it. Also, until you get all the way up to conj-8 your pretender is your only air support and it's useful to be able to cast fog warriors and not pass out (A5 with 5 gems) so you can then cast returning the next turn to keep your pretender relatively risk free. You could put the points elsewhere if you want, but it seemed a decent investment. -> So here's my prospective build for MA-Oceania: Pretender: F4W4E4A4D4N4, Dom 4 Scales O3 D3 C3 First turn: Prophetize a siren. You could wait for for a bishop in order have a H4 site searcher - but I find the utility of the siren much higher. Flying move 3. You are going to find a lot of kelp fortresses - the prophetized siren gives you quick options to lab/temple them. Plus, the sirens can help you quickly find land sacred sites. The first couple of turns Research with your pretender. You don't want to fail a conquest and end up with your pretender twiddling. With this build, I'd start on Construction immediately, to get the pearl factory going. -> I don't think you appreciate the implications of what I said Chris. If the failure rate is 3 times what I outlined then it take 3 times that amount to "pay for itself". I don't know what the failure rate is (I don't think luck scales affect it), but something that pays for itself in 2-5 turns is a pretty good investment. Assuming your numbers are accurate, if you plan on eventually recovering most of those feebleminded guys with fairy queens then the transformation is paying for itself in under two turns even if you don't think the new mages are any better at all. Even if you never recover a single feebleminded guy it's still massively worthwhile to start investing in this early on. -> Awesome stuff, as usual. I just finished subbing for an MA Oceania position which shared the water with R'lyeh. I completely agree with everything you've said - if R'lyeh doesn't exist. But since it happens, here are a few comments to complement your extraordinary guide: If R'lyeh is in the game, buckle up. After turn 25, they will dominate you, so kill them immediately. Picture this: your Grand Army is swimming to meet the Alien Army. But just before the confrontation, 6 of your 10 commanders get zapfried by mindhunts, including the stealty S1 Spectre that was protecting them. So you arrive at the battlefield at half strength, across from a huge hoard of mindless chaff... Turn 1: a half dozen ichtycentaurs get their minds enslaved, 2 dozen first strikes are spent killing them, as are a few errant numbness-es. Turn 2: repeat, only now the chaff have engaged you.........Eventually your exhausted ichtycentaurs break and retreat into enemy territory, since Imprint Souls can target underwater provinces. I recommend: (A) Surge out the the water looking with the singular goal of finding indy astral mage provinces. Forge swim trunks and institute the buddy system. (B) Beg/Borrow/Steal all the Starshine Skullcaps you can. Put them on A and start every party with Antimagic. (C) Beg/Borrow/Steal all the Amulets of Antimagic you can. Use 16+4=20MR Bishop Fish to lead your underwater armies, lest you arrive at the field without any troops. Make Lead Shields if necessary. (D) Get Foul Vapors immediately...I know Alteration is awesome for Oceania, but you MUST get this spell before R'lyeh gets Enslave Mind. Unintuitively, Foul Vapors is castable underwater, and you can cast Poison Ward to mitigate the damage to your troops, he can't. Splurge those Earth gems on some un-mind-burnable, regenerating, poison-immune, zero-encumberance claymen to bolster your frontline. (E) You need Bloodstones badly, as your Mermages can't wear Earth Boots underwater. Make it a priority, as you can then use Summon Earthpower and get Strength of Giants/Legions of Steel/Weapons of Sharpness underwater. Plus you can then summon Troll Kings. (F) 20 PD in each retreat route. (G) Don't cast Shark Attack in round 1. Script your Sirens for (Summon Water Power)(hold)(hold)(hold)(Shark Attack) so that the Enslave Minders are too exhausted for sustained enslavment of your sharks. One last thought: Sailor's Death (W3, AOE=1, 14+ AN damage) works underwater against troops that are there by unnatural means (i.e. Sea King's Goblet, Wave Breaker, etc)...Summon Waterpower makes every mage you have W3, and most get Eagle Eyes...exploit this. Again, great stuff. -> A couple good points there Cleveland, particularly about Shark attack and Sailor's death which I didn't know. I will say though that I don't think R'yleh will quite dominate you if you play this right and make the appropriate preparations for a mid/late game fight with the squids. To be sure, R'yleh is one of the more powerful nations in the game and will seldom be a pushover for any nation to fight, but you do have some powerful tools at your disposal using this setup I outlined. 1) Fighting R'yleh you don't want to use ichtycentaurs, use the Oceanian Triton supported by mindless/high MR summons (yeah leviathans!). Those enslave minds/soul slay/mind blasts are now targeting your 12 MR, 10 gold troops who are *very* tough chaff when buffed with mass protection and possibly fog warriors. Using ice pebble staffs and support mages (frozen heart, bone melter, drain life, etc.) you should be able to easily handle the small numbers of elite units R'yleh fields (meteor guards, void summons). Enslave mind is a lot less scary when instead of 100 centaurs you're fielding 400 tritons who have a nice unbuffed 12 MR (ok, probably 11 in a magic-1 environment), flanked by swarms of bone fiends, and remember you're countering with powerful spells of your own. If he's dropping mind hunt and enslave mind (evocation & thuaum), you should be matching with polymorphs & shark attack (alteration & conj) 2) You've got a stealthy astral pretender from turn 1 and if you've got a S1 specter you damn sure better slap two boosters on him. The thing about having *stealthy* astral mages is they work as a wonderful mind hunt deterrent far above the actual number of territories they're in. Think about it, if you're playing R'yleh and you know I've got some unknown number of astral mages hiding in my territory (because you've been feebleminded a couple times targeting apparently "safe" targets) are you likely to drop 10 mind hunts on the high value army that I'm very interested in protecting? Even if I *don't* have a mage there you're likely to assume I do. Remember, your opponent has *no idea* how many stealthy astral mages you've got covering you or where they are, only that that number is greater than 0 and he's got no way to recover from feeblemind. And of course you're not just bluffing, you should stick a specter/your pretender sneaking around with the grand army you really don't want mind hunted. 3) Indie astral mages are certainly a boon, but one of the tenants of this guide is that astral mages are too vital to count on finding indies. Your pretender gives you astral from turn 1. Specters are an early focus for your death economy, and you're also optionally funneling water gems into Unfrozen - you should have a handful of astral mages to work with even if you can't find any indie ones. I certainly don't disagree that you should keep your eyes peeled for indies, but they're not critical. You should be able to forge as many amulets of antimagic as you want, drop anti-magic, and stop mind hunts dead without counting on luck. If you don't have enough astral mages for what you need, well you now know what the top priority is for all your death and water gems. Yes, I do believe I described blood stones as unlocking the second holy grail for MA Oceana. Couldn't agree more. If you need the extra level of earth that you lose from not being able to wear earth boots underwater use one of your E/S specters to forge a crystal shield. Foul vapors I don't know if I agree with. Certainly it can be made to be effective, but I don't see it as being a top priority target. It works too slow, requires combos to work well, and still probably will result in friendly casualties until you start getting the real powerful combos (large numbers of poison immune troops, mass regeneration, etc). Certainly it's something you'll want to pick up at some point, but I wouldn't personally drop some of the other stuff I suggest to get it. -> Yeah it makes a lot of sense at 3N per casting, though the vast majority of the forms, I still feel are wholly unsuited to combat use. Out of 25 mages (2 died the last turn to Mind Burns, can't remember what they were, but I think they can safely be classified as "MR too low to survive combat" - 3 Foulspawn = 8MR 2 Dragonflies = 3MR 12 various animals = 5MR 1 Winged Monkey (so cool!) = 7MR 1 Bog Beast = 7MR 2 Ice Drakes = 9MR 1 "Hydra Hatchling" (looks like a mature Hydra missing some heads, only 1 form) = 12MR 1 Wyvern = 12MR 1 Chimera = 13MR 1 Amphiptere = 16MR So if I count the 2 that just died, I had 20% Feebleminded (the Foulspawn and Dragonflies, who are actually at 3MR and -2MR atm from Affliction), and 16% who have >10MR before items. Of those 4, none of them have anything but misc slots, so besides the kind of awesome Amphiptere, none will surpass an unbuffed Capricorn, even with an Antimagic Ammy. (on the bright side, 25 ex-Capricorns with 1 star, and in 1Magic dominion will net you 250RP for free, and cut upkeep by ~583g) As far as Mermages as support mages..... they are almost identical to a Capricorn out of the water. Without going into length, I'll just say that I didn't think I was the only one that felt that it wasn't just that Capricorns were too expensive once removed from the water, but that their paths just sucked in combat by that point anyways. Not to say that some Mermages wouldn't come in handy, but there is little good they can do that won't have them passed out by round 5, and not much they can do before that. So, trying to look for an angle that allows land to be conquered early on, and Conj to be researched early enough to not only get a good stable of summoned mages up very early, but to make them visible to your neighbors, so they understand the risks involved in trying to marginalize your holdings. All this is a very tough task to accomplish, when it's well known that you won't get better than N2 or W2 for combat magic without your pretender, or summons (or booster items, but Water is way out of early reach, and Nature seems a very poor use for your gems, considering your other goals). -> 8.27.2.3 8.28 Pangaea 8.28.1 EA Pangaea 8.28.1.1 Dedas guide to EA Pangaea
THE SETUP Pretender As I'm trying to use EA Pan's every potential, I also tried to find a good pretender to use with spell songs. What I found was the ¿The lady of love¿. Now, this woman is ideal for the job of singing in front line battle. And the reason for this is that she has both high awe (+4) and the ability to craft herself a hide shield on the first turn. That shield and her pretty high HP will help her and her troops to deal with arrows to a less extent when expanding. Arrows that of course are deadly to any EA Pan unit. Other things she is even better at are sucking up cavalry chargers and staying alive singing. Her awe helps her with these tasks. Also not to be forgotten is her nature and water magic that will strengthen her and her minions defensive capabilities later on when research really kicks in. But for start game she doesn't need any of that.
Turmoil 3, Sloth 3, Heat 1, Growth 3, Luck 3, Magic 3. Heavy on growth as you are going to patrol your provinces heavily to afford all those castles and pans. Heavy on magic will help with spell songs (negating MR and less fatigue for the caster) and research. The battle in the savegame: It show effective use of the spell song as the small and lightly damaged starting army takes out a relatively big group of heavy cavalry. STEP BY STEP Early game general goals Build a strong economy that will fuel a strong research base with pans as core. The cheap in upkeep dryads will soon become abundant and can be used as support troops in many various roles. Early game the first crucial turns TURN 1 Recruit:
A dryad 40xharpies Forge a hide shield with your pretender. Make your black harpy prophet. Put the minotaur with accompanying troops to patrol. Set taxes to 200%. Turn 2 Recruit:
A dryad (no nothing else, save your gold) Equip your pretender with hide shield. Give all harpies to the dryad, set her to patrol (taxes still at 200%.) With your pretender, prophet and minotaur: Attack any province that is not a farm (too expensive fortress) but still produces a good amount of gold. For battle placement see savegame. TURN 3 Recruit:
A dryad. As many harpies as you can afford (not over 40). If you don't have the money, try to alchemise a small amount of nature gems.
A fortress in the newly taken province. Attack another province with your pretender and minotaur. TURN 4 Recruit:
A dryad 40xharpies Put all free harpies on the newly recruited dryad. Move her to the fortress construction site. Move your pretender and the minotaur to the fortress construction site. TURN 5 Recruit:
A dryad 40xharpies Build at the fortress construction site: A temple with you prophet. A lab with your pretender. Continue construction with your minotaur. Put all free harpies on the newly recruited dryad. Move her to one of the newly taken provinces that produces the most gold. Set taxes to 200% at the fortress construction site. Set the dryad there to patrol. TURN 6 AND BEYOND Roughly You should now have a new fortress to continue the dryad production in. *Note* The reason you are recruiting dryads is because they later can be set to various tasks including research, spying, defense and offense (singing and blessing), patrol, lab and temple building. Other commanders are either too expensive in both upkeep and price, or they have less uses. Your old fortress should be set to spamming pans. When you very soon have yet another fortress, much to the help of your income boosting patrol dryads, you should set the old one to pans as well. *Note* Pans are good but need a strong economy. The dryads can manage this. The pans will later help with free patrollers as maenads become abundant. A growth scale is needed to battle low supplies from patrolling. Your pans should of course be set to research. Middle game Coming soon... Late game Coming soon... Comments: -> s you explore Pangaea, keep in mind that its a LA Ermor-type nation: both get lots-and-lots of free, crappy units. Then remember that LA Ermor armies are (a) huge, (b) mostly chaff, and (c) heavily buffed...at least the successful ones. So a successful Pan strat CAN focus on the same, with a few subtle differences. First, Pan doesn't get the numbers of freespawn that Ermor does. Pan armies, therefore, need to be supplemented with a larger fraction of front-line thugs & thuggish troops than Ermor armies. A 10:1 maenad:minotaur ratio seems to be the sweet-spot, supported by your singing dryads. This means more $ spent on troops, but that's OK, because... Second, Pan's freespawn is inherently superior to Ermor's. They're unbanishable, fast (makes archers unhappy), and can reliably hit opponents. Additionally, they aren't mindless, so they make GREAT fort defenders, and laugh at mind-burn/soul-slay spamming. They aren't poison-resistant, but feel free to Breath of Dragon all over them regardless, because... Third, Pan is ready-made for the Whole-Battlefield Nature & Earth buffs. Mass protection early on, Army of Lead/Gold later. Serpent's Blessing opens poison evocations. Later, Mass Regeneration & Gaia's Blessing. And repeat after me: "Darkness is to Ermor what Growing Fury is to Pangaea;" throw it down, and your maenads & minotaurs become an unroutable offensive tidal wave. Like Ermor, archers will be a problem. Unlike Ermor, you can readily cast Faerie Court, and voila, Air Fend. Similarly, like Ermor, raid the crap out of everyone, take terrible scales to make your lands undesirable (+3 heat/cold especially, as your troops wear no armor), and spam (cheap) temples. Splash some Blood in there for good measure, spam blood stones, & think Forge of the Ancients (instead of Utterdark). Like Ermor, be ready for a tough endgame, though you don't have to fear Purgatory. -> 8.28.2 MA Pangaea 8.28.2.1 MA Pangaea strategies -> I've just chosen to play Pangaea in a MP game, pretty much at random, so I thought I'd look for strategies in the forum. So far I've seen evidence of three, and I thought I'd outline what I understood of each in the hope of being corrected where I've gone wrong and getting some in-depth explanation of bits I don't understand. Or of course be told of new strategies I've missed. Pretenders: Most options for Pangaea strategy are covered by three pretenders - Lord of the Wild, Carrion Dragon and Gorgon. The Gorgon is a highly capable SC due to its Petrify ability - every unit attacking it in melee will have to make a MR check or be turned to stone, generally causing instant death. The flip side to this is that the Gorgon has relatively few HP for an SC, making it fragile (especially against archers). Workarounds for the fragility can include adding Awe by taking 10 dominion, having a dormant pretender who can be equipped with good armour as soon as she awakens, and simply taking Earth 9. The Gorgon has E and N innately, and extra paths cost 80. Taking more than one extra path is probably ill-advised. Air can be a good path to take, allowing the Gorgon to forge armour like the shining chainmail for Air Shield. The Carrion Dragon is a slight oddity - a dragon that isn't a great SC. It lacks a breath weapon and 8 Prot instead of 18, and lacks in Defence also. Having 200 hp instead of 125 doesn't make up for it. In compensation it has a huge +10 Fear and extra magic paths cost only 50 points instead of 80. Despite this, it probably won't survive solo against indy provinces with more than average strength. Download 5.74 Mb. Share with your friends:
|