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I put my Hierophont on Bless, then fire at rearmost. I put my archers on fire at archers, and my harpys off to the right flank (low on the positioning image) with orders to Hold and Attack rearward. I find that archers tend to be assigned high on the battlefield (their right) which allows better access to the commanders from the low flanking unit (my right). The stealth army is moving quickly to find targets of opportunity. Nations who do not put up Province Defense. Or battlegrounds between two nations where the winner might be damaged enough for you to take a province before PD goes up. There are two choices for what to do with a province once taken. A) Raze
B) Beachhead With Raze you expect it to be taken back. You set the taxes to 200%, purchase minimal PD, any units which can help hold it or at least make it a problem to take back. With Beachhead you turn taxes to 0%, put lots of money into PD, purchase as many local units as possible. Either way, your stealth army should disappear into the wilderness. If you noticed enemy armies nearby you might want to move to the opposite side of your opponents area and attack the other side. If you are approaching that nation with your non-stealth armies then definetly attack the provinces on the far side from there in order to draw their armies that direction to handle your attacks and retake the provinces you have grabbed. Try not to connect your provinces to theirs until you are sure that you can withstand their armies. Maintain the ability to do "free damage" for as long as possible. Hit them, ignore them for awhile, hit them again. They cant reach you without expensive battles thru indept nations until later in the game when there are no more indepts or the use of magic allows for far strikes. You also might save your stealth army some wear and tear when you can use Call of the Wild. The stealth army or scouts can find likely weak points. Drop wolves on it to take it. Then do the recommended actions and sneak off the wolves as another stealth army in that area. Obviously these tactics would work on a human player only as a surprise action. Their ability to change tactics to respond to it varies from person to person. It also has great benefits when used in alliance with someone who has more standard armies. They also work better vs AI's. And larger maps help it. All in all its a difficult strategy to use unless you just really like playing stealth surprise tactics. Comments: -> In blitzes dual blessed white centaurs are very popular. They usually stealthraid in a similiar way you described above in your strategies and eventually they unite and defeat the enemy main army.
If you buy lots of PD in your provinces, because of the manikins you get your provinces are much harder to raid. IF you manage to spread your dominion into enemy territory too, and with the help of dryads stealth preaching this should be somehow possible, you could then use Pans and Dryads offensively who cast creeping doom and swarm. Those manikin hordes are then a big problem for many enemy strats. The sleepvines can be even dangerous for SCs. And because most of your stuff is stealthy you can combine this with your usual stealth strats too. You could also try to massproduce Harpies. Main Problem: DISPEL Astral gems are unfortunately easier to get than nature gems. And there are other promising globals, mainly GoH and Gift of Nature's Bounty, and the ants+dragonflies need lots of nature gems too. But hoarding is harder in Dom3, and you could get lots of extra nature gems via trading and via rushing to mother oak. So my casting idea for haunted forest would be to cast the first haunted forest with a really high, but weird number of gems, like 583 extra nature gems. Such an unorthodox number makes your opponents likely waste lots of pearls i think. How would you try to dispel such a haunted forest? Eventually it will get dispelled nontheless probably, but you can try to fool your opponents then by recasting haunted forest, sometimes with no extra gems, sometimes with like 2xx extra gems. This way they likely waste many more pearls for dispelling than usually. If you only use nature gems for searching but save up all of them otherwise i think we can assume that we would get about 15 nature gems per turn from turn 20 on at least usually. Till turn 20 you can at least save 100 nature gems too i think. So at turn 60 you would then theoretically have at least 100+40x15=700 nature gems.
1. How much did this slow down your progress till turn 60 if you would have used the nature gems for short-term gain investments like Ivy King Vine Ogre factories, Lamia Queens, Faery Queens, Firbolgs, Carrions etc. etc.? 2. Would you probably profit even more if you decided to save up your nature gems by casting GoH instead? 3. How many astral gems will your opponents have around turn 60? And how soon will they be able to dispel? They might have used their astral income for short term investments, and thus have to save up for dispelling. But there might also have been someone who hoarded or has arcane nexus running. 8.28.5 Best Pangaea troops discussion -> I play Pangaea a good bit. Typically I raise an army of hoplites and centaur longbow men to take provinces near my castle. The war minotaurs seem a bit pricey at 50 gold each. The revelers have low protection, and cause unrest, which i try to keep down to avoid getting hordes of free troops that i do not want to pay upkeep costs for. After i build up some income, i tend to use more centaur cataphracts since they cost 40 gold, have good armor, defense, and movement. I do not usually use the blessed white centaurs, as their low protection and need to be blessed is a pain. Also, I use the gorgon, but only take 5 e 4n 3 air, so my bless is not a strong one. I really like air with the gorgon for silver hauberk chest piece. Light and stops arrows. Air is nice for mistform, mirror image as well. Plus early in game, air shield is nice for gorgon with only 30 hp. I also like having arrow stopping item on my pretender to keep calaum and others from killing with that magical arrow spell(seeking heart). Typically i also take 3 order 2 prod, 1 growth so that prevents giving the gorgon a ton of magic. I sleep the gorgon, but do not imprison(also take 2 heat or cold for some extra points). -> Centaur warriors are very good. Lowish protection is their only real weakness, but berserking and high hitpoints make up for that most of the time. Their resource cost is so low they can produced in great numbers even with Sloth scale. I'd never take Production with MA Pangaea. -> Maenads don't cost upkeep at all. Gold cost 0. Even a gold cost of 1 would utterly bankrupt EA Pangaea. They'll eat all of your supplies and then some, though. -> Pangaea starting castle only has 30 admin. and if you like using the hoplites and centaur cathaphracts you need a prod bonus. Hoplites at 13 gold 16 prot form the backbone of my army, with longbow centaurs sitting behind them shotting down stuff. I guess not taking 2 prod would give me 80 more points, but low protection troops tend to die fast to ulm ranged troops, the eineire for vanaheim, giants etc. For 40 gold i like troops with 19 armor, even though they do not berserk, with a blessing of courage they do not rout often. And they live longer. Comment: 'm with Teraswaerto here. Forget Hoplites and Cataphracts, take sloth 3 and spend the points elsewhere. Centaurs are great units - somewhat expensive in gold (and upkeep), especially if you go the turmoil route for the Maenads, but definitely worth it. The archers are great and will win most arrow duels. The warriors are also great - put them at fire closest so they throw their javelins. They have > 20 hps, can berserk and have recup (= staying power). And they are stealthy Some people even go a heavy bless route with the White Centaurs, but they are expensive (70g) and capital-only so I prefer to just hand them a few minor blesses. Once you get your magic rolling, boost them with Mass Protection, Legions of Steel, Weapons of Sharpness, Strength of Giants, etc. ' -> Yes, if you plan to use Hoplites and Cataphracts then Production is needed. However, I think Centaur Warriors are better, and when using them you'll also get design points from being able to take Sloth. -> For the first turn I get all centaur longbows (unless the longbow mercs are available). I tend to put some maenads in the frontline to boost the morale, and a couple of minotaurs for extra punch. Once I take the nearby provinces then I concentrate more on anything with stealth so I can quickly get my stealth armies over to my nearest enemies. It works much better to pick one to harrass during their growth period when they cant march a retributing army back at you. There is also two very strong strategy lines that can impact Pangaea, the maenads route or the vine-creature route. Both of those can affect pretender choice, and scales quite abit. But since he said he uses Gorgon most of my usual suggesitons dont apply as much. The only thing I could think of there is maybe giving up one of the earth points for another air point so he can get arrow defence on bless. -> One interesting thing i read in the manual last night was that the effectiveness of Tangle Vines increaes in Growth dominions... -> here are some thoughts: 1. if you play Pangaea and like having a super contender, there is none better in the entire game then the Gorgon, properly equipped. My gorgon starts 5e 4n 3 a, sleeping. By the time she awakes, I will have 4 construction and 4 alteration. if i have no air gems, i search for them(typically i will hire mercenary mages to hunt for astral and air games early on. Gorgon wears silver hauberk chest, regeneration ring, eye shield, some revig items, and 5 earth helm. Now properly protected from arrows, and with a 25 armor class unbuffed, she goes into battle. she casts mistform, mirror image, and elemental fortitude, then attacks closest enemy. I try toi keep her at my end battlefield to avoid smites, and some other caster spells. She is devasting. later in the game with haunted forest, she is unbeatable in her own dominion. 2. Production is good to take. I always take 2 production 3 order, 1 growth. I take 2 heat to get extra points, as well as sleeping the gorgon. Having 2 production makes the armored pangaea troops a viable option. Hoplites are dirt cheap 13 gold infantry. 16 prot, 14 hp, 14 defense, 11 str 11 attack, heal afflictions. best infantry in the game for the cost. Centaur cataphact is a bargain calvary unit at 40 gold. 19 prot plus high defense, plus heals afflictions! No comparison between these and the 9 protection centaur warrior. If you want berserk troops get the minotaur warrior with 17 protection and plus 4 berserk and trample for just 10 gold more. Plus with 350 gold a pop mages, taking 3 sloth cuts into your income(: I find 3 order, 2 prod, 1 growth gives me income and ability to purchase well armored troops(i can still get centaur warrior, i just have more options with 2 prod v 3 sloth). In short, i cannot imagine playing pangaea without the gorgon or with sloth. If you have not tried the gorgon with 5e 4n 3 air, give it a try. research 4 construction right off the bat so she can get silver hauberk, which is a key for her. If dagan can find 5 astral gems, have him make a luck charm to go with her ring of regeneration. she is very tough with no luck, but with it she will not die in her own dominion, and typically not even in -5 enemy dominion, but that is risky. She is virtually immune to melee and ranged damage, though if unlucky she can be smited etc. Some other Pangaea musings: 1. 6 slings as a castle defense when their ranged troops have longbow? What is up with that? 2. Summoned troops: I like going conj 4 and have 2 mages summon kithaironic lions the whole game after i get mother oak up. A popular choice seems be vine ogres, but since they require magical leadership, and they basically suck with 5 protection, I think it is not worth the effort. sure you can say legion steel, protection blah blah blah, but id rather buff up tougher troops like the regular great lions that have great speed and a good attack. Plus the regular lions do not require magical leadership and you can have a ton of them in an army. I do think the nature summons at 4 is not as good as fire, earth and water summons. you get 5 ethereal with those summons, though the cost is higher in gems. 3. casting mother oak/gift of health: i use a bought mage to cast these. rarely 1 will come with 5 nature, but 4 nature is common. With 4 nature and 4 construction(thistle mace) the mage can cast these with small effort. Since I use the Gorgon as a battle sc, there is no reason to risk a double loss of your pretender and 2 globals as well. I usually have my gorgon make a robe of missile protection for the mage so he cannot die to a seeking arrow. 4. another pet peeve, Pangaea's starting castle has only 30 admin. So it is doubly nice to snag another pretender's home castle early so you can have a 50 or 60 admin castle to crank out huge numbers of hoplites, war minotaurs, and armored centaurs. Especially if you took 2 prod! 5. my ultimate "i win" spell with the gorgon is the haunted forest. Flying around in friendly dominion and fighting with this spell up is a blast. petrify and you have 5-10 allies fighting with you each turn. -> Best MA pan troops = White Centaurs Followed by harpies for mass patrolling tricks. -> I have to disagree on the war minotaur. They have 18 protection and a lot hps, so they do not go quietly. Also, you claim they get exhausted and sit there. I usually use war minotaurs in packs of at least 10. So they cannot be picked on. Trampling causes enemy to flee in many cases, and my army is not made up mainly of war minotaurs, but hoplites and longbows. So the enemy has plenty to worry about besides the war minotaurs. The minotaurs do not have a low attack because they have berserk 5, which allows for a good attack and it hurts a lot. They are particularly useful against elephants, as their size allows them to survive longer, they do not retreat, and a couple hits of low defense elephants will kill them. A group of war minotaurs is also my troop of choice to charge a castle. They trample through the logjam at the gate and do not retreat. Centaur warriors are vulnerable to ranged troops with their low protection. While they certainly have their uses, you can see a pack of them vanish after a volley from ulm crossbowmen. So in most cases, i like the 19 armor centaurs for the same price. While they do not have berserk, they have high defense and good morale. I am certainly not an expert on Pangaea, and there are many ways to play them. But I prefer the gorgon + armored troops path. Going the armored route, they are Ulm, but have, trampling units, flying scouts, better infantry because of more hps, defense, recuperation, morale, magic resistance. response: There are surely many ways to play Pangaea, and if this strategy works out for you, great. I will just add the following points. 1. The Gorgon is a great SC pretenter, surely one of the best available. But just getting Air 1 on him is 80 points extra, the price of 2 positive scales. 2. You are playing Pangaea like it was Ulm. Sure, the hoplites and cataphracts have higher protection and that can be nice. But neither are stealthy and hoplites have strat move 1 (2 for the cataphracts) so, for higher protection, you lose stealth, berserkng (= they rout) and mobility and the design points for paying production scales. Is this worth it? Protection eventually loses importance when magic starts ruling the battlefield, stealth, berserking, mobility, etc. *never* go obsolete. 3. Centaur warrior have low prot, sure. Having >20 they can take the occasional arrow hit (and having recup will eventually heal afflictions) besides they go berserk (never rout and higher prot). And there are ways to boost their protection. And why would a volley of crossbowman be especially deadly? XBows half the protection, but CW have little protection to begin with!! so what's the worry? If anything, their low rate of fire is better for Pangaea. And remember, defence means nothing against missile fire, while having a shield does (and CW do have a shield). 4. Kithaironic lions instead of Vine ogres? For *6N* you get *1* lion instead of 2 vine ogres for 2N (with ivy crowns - better ratios with treelord staff and/or ivy kings). And what have kithaironic lions better than Vine Ogres? protection and higher mr. Everything else is more or less the same, and they can rout. And Vine Ogres are poison resistant so you can pull some deadly poison combos. Plus you need a pan to summon them, while for vine ogres a boosted nature mage or an ivy king does the job. Oh according to the manual a Kithaironic Lion is also a magic being. As Aleph mentioned another very good pretender for Pangaea is, IMHO, the mother of monsters. Not only you get lamias galore from mid-game onwards, but since it is 20 extra points for extra magic path she can add a much needed magical versatility to Pangaea. Being naturally an ND mage, she can also cast the national summons, etc. 2nd response: Good points all. The lions offer a good troops to use as calvary, they do require magic leadership, but you get 1 per summon so getting more than a pan can lead happens seldom. What do you spend your extra points on exactly? I have max order 2 prod 1 growth even with the 3 air and 6 dominion. And I sleep the gorgon, do not imprison her as she is often needed by me early on, but i do not need her right off because i like to get 4 construction researched before sending her into battle solo. I have excellent research and production with my scales. I do take 2 heat, but with 3 order 2 prod 1 growth my income is still very good. When I take another pretender's castle early in the game, with the 2 production i can crank out huge armies of hoplites, cataphracts, and war minos. I still have the option the use other units, when i do want to use a stealth army. But if stealth was my theme, id likely use the ghost king, give him a bit fire magic so he could lead bigger armies. Holpites do break, but if they do, i am likely going to lose the battle anyway. My army usually has about 50 hoplites up front. 40 centaur long bows focusing on enemy archers. 10-20 cataphracts going for enemy archers, and 10-20 war minotaurs starting behind the hoplites, so they break the enemies initial charge and then move in. Hoplites hold their own even against acrosaphale's hoplites. they do not have that high morale, but they have good protection coupled with good hps and defense. Most infantry with 16 protection do not have that 14 defense the Pangaea hoplites have. Of course i have a pan or 2 buffing the armies and dryads doing sermon courage. By mid game, i will have some bane lords and sleepers in the army. Sleepers help prevent routing, and with a couple nature artifacts, can do well in melee battle. The bane lords can be devastating with artifacts, and they of course do not rout. A bargain for the cheap cost! -> I have tried the e94n gorgon. I like the air set up better. Her survival skills are markedly better with earth/air forged items. I do not like sending her naked into fights, even with 18 prot. Mistform is really nice buff as well. And while the white centaur is great with e9n4 bless, they are capital only, can be a pain to bless without divine blessing, and cost 70 gold. Even blessed i am not sure they are better than 2 19 protection centaur cathaphracts, which you do not have to bless and can buy at any fort for 40 gold. On pure survivorbility of the gorgon, there is no comparison. the 3 air goes a long way, and also adds 3 precision for her spells in the event she is actually casting. 99 percent of the time she scripts "summon earthpower, mistform, mirror image, elemental fortitude, personal regeneration, attack closest enemy." She wears silver hauberk chest, black steel helmet, snake bladder stick, eye shield, boots of the messenger, amulet of resilience, ring of regeneration. Obviously later in the game she upgrades equipment. Equipped in this manner, in a friendly dominion, she is pretty much unbeatable. Though, like all sc's she is vulnerable to smites, and certain instant kill spells. -> 8.28.6 Pangaea Songs -> The songs have range of "0" squares, but 15 areas of effect. This means the effect hits 15 areas around the caster - what is very unlikely to include one 15 squares away. How the distribution is calculated is not fully known AFAIK, but I would guess it works similar to a 15-area fear or cold aura effect, but only temporary. There's some information about the working of (fear) auras by one of the devs which sheds some light on the distribution of effects, but I wasn't able to dig it up again. However, you can safely assume the songs have a 'effective' range of 1-3 squares. -> AFAIK 15 AOE means a circle with a territory of 15. That gives us 15=Pi*r^2 => r=sqrt(15/Pi)~=2.185 Assuming the circle is centered on the caster, that would make the spell affect anything withing a range of 2, or just a space of 1 between the caster and the affected enemy.
8.29.1 MA Pythium 8.29.1.1 Assortment of tips
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