0. 2 Description 3 Credits
Download 5.74 Mb.
|
| Harpies are good for scouting and patrolling, that is for sure. Thanks for the tip.
Well, putting all your money into research in the early game is one viable strategy. Another is to put it in military units (if you have good ones as Pan does) to expand your economy by grabbing as many provinces as possible and still be able to defend them from early rushers. Yet another, and a more common one, is to try doing everything at once. This will of course make your error marginal smaller, as one unlucky event (like losing your pretender) can cost you the game.
Use stealthy embedded in enemy territories - or harpies.. to cut off retreat. March your Pretender - armed with Pan standards, horror helmets and the like. -> It's always good to get a carrion factory going... those things are just plain menacing when set to Guard Commander with Pan support. Enemies charge across the screen and just sort of pile up like, well, a compost heap. Sleep Vines is a super effective attack. This means that you're going to have to beg, borrow, and steal for death magic... get a death economy going as soon as inhumanly possible. This pretty much means that you need at least Death 1 on your pretender... more helps, but really isn't necessary. Minotaur Warriors during MA are fantastic. There's not a whole lot that can face them when buffed. Satyr infantry in general is extremely worthy. With high MR, high movement, stealth, forest survival, high hps, low resource cost, spears, REALLY good morale from the ubiquitous druids casting Sermon of Courage... heck, they even have armor so you don't have to Protect and give them fire vulnerability, just slap on some Legions of Steel and they're good to go. And don't get me started on Revelers. Harpies are very good for patrolling, which works really well with a thematic Growth scale. And centaurs... centaurs are peerless archers with 12 base precision on top of longbows. Huge hps, especially with Gift of Health which is quite simple to manage in any era with Pangaea. Afflictions, pish. Old age? Here, let me cast Burden of Time myself and watch enemy skeleton hordes crumble into dust over the aeons... ok I think I just got carried away there. Right, I always use Ladies as they only require D1N1 to summon, same as the Centaurs. The Lords require N3D2 I think, which is awfully hard to pull off, and as you say, not as efficient for 25 gems/3 carrion/turn as the Ladies are for 16 gems/2 carrion/turn. As far as what to use to summon the Ladies, it's certainly not a bad thing to allocate that job to a Pan who is useful by his mere existence, partying and debouching Maenads into existence. I'd rather have 2 extra carrion per turn than 10 RP for THAT turn only. In 10 turns you can create 10 Carrion Ladies who will produce 20 carrion monsters per turn for the low price of 160 nature gems. The Carrion Ladies themselves are probably your best bet for leading your carrion into battle, as they can buff them and control 120 each at 0 experience. At first glance, carrion doesn't seem too impressive at all. However, they can make a solid wall of defense for your battlemages. They don't rout, they use Sleep Vines which puts the front lines of your enemy to sleep, preventing them from attacking or even retreating so the next wave of enemies can attack you. They're immune to poison and they can be buffed to quite tough proportions by your national priest spells. Quickened, protected, regenerating Elephant carrion, or any others for that matter, are not to be sneezed at by any troop. And they just keep piling up like a compost heap, not taking any upkeep or supplies. ->
8.28.3.1 Hints: -> - Get a Fire 9 bless, or then Fire 9/Water 9 - Build Black Centaurs -> Alternative approach could be Dryad Hoplites and various Fear effects. Thaumaturgy 3 and 4 give you Panic and Terror. You have mages capable of casting both. Both lower enemy morale. With low morale, they can't get past your Dryads' Awe. Of course, you could always go for Enchantment and summon few Carrion commanders. They can reanimate manikins and other weird creatures for free. -> Personally I think the manikins serve only one purpose; fatigue SCs to death. For a relatively large investment you get an army based alternative to the normal La Pangea Charm spam. Since the sleep vines don't care about protection, and any SC can have their defense reduced by swarming, they're quite powerful. They are MR negates though. So while I can definitely see them swarming and fatiguing MR ~20 guys, I fear they'll fail to harm SC with heavy MR equipment except in the longest of battles. (Or is the sheer number of attacks enough to overwhelm even massive MR?) Of course, a SC with heavy investment in MR might be more vulnerable to physical or elemental damage. mr does not matter in the end. I have tested powerful scs against manikens, and though it takes a bit longer the result is inevitable-dead sc. Too many attacks, and some always get through. but you do need to have literally hundreds of them. I just ran a few tests to see if scales and presence of temple had an influence. In each scenario I reanimated 200 manikins. With growth 3 luck 3 magic 3 and a temple: 20 'stronger' types (6 sagittarii, 6 minotaurs, 3 mandragoras, 1 elephant, 4 bears) The rest was regular chaffy stuff. With the above scales but no temple: 14 'stronger' ones (1 sagittarii, 1 minotaur, 2 mandragoras, 7 elephants, 3 bears) With death 3 misfortune 3 drain 3 and a temple: 13 stronger ones (3 sagittarii, 3 minos, 1 mandragora, 3 elephants, 3 bears) And with those scales but no temple 24 strong ones (2 Sagitarii, 6 minotaurs, 4 mandragoras, 4 elephants, 8 bears) So I'm guessing it's pretty random. The highest number of specials actually came from the 'bad scales no temple' test, but the 'good scales with temple' scenario had almost as many, and the two 'in betweens' had the least. -> 'm currently playing LA Pan in MP, though it's a CBM game, so LA Pan is really a completely different nation: in CBM, Carrion Woods is level zero, so I put it up as soon as I could and relied on the manikin/undead animal freespawn to expand. But, that makes me uniquely qualified to comment on a Pangaean undead strategy, which I've been using now for ~40 turns. I don't want to tip my hand (DonCorazon stop reading now!) but I can give you some thoughts. First, to answer a few of your questions: "Are there any other kinds of 'better' manikins available through reanimation that I didn't get so far?" Sounds like you've seen them all, though it's worth mentioning you'll occasionally get Mangradoras, which have 2 sleep vines + claw, 25hp, respectable att & def (9), and 13MR.
LA Pan has an undead "Ettin Mandragora" hero, so you'll only get it through the "Suddenly this guy appeared at your gates...!" event. It's an excellent chassis, with 3 hand slots, 2 head slots, and an L1 priest (self bless). Vine Shield + Boots of Behemoth + Regrowth and you've got an early game quasi-SC. Did I miss any other means of acquiring manikins? You can cast the Const3 spell Construct Manikin, though I don't recommend it. Now the big question: How useful do you rate them? They frankly aren't very useful on their own, BUT are very useful to LA Pangaea.
1) Manikins (and here I'm referring to all the undead stuff Pan gets) are completely different from everything else in Pan's arsenal. To counter them effectively, your opponent will need to field banish-spam priests, which diverts funds/attention from more cost-effective counters to your Minotaurs, Centaur Warriors, Dryad Hoplites, and Harpies. If he decides your manikins aren't a threat... 2) Massed manikins are surprisingly effective. The sleep vines attack, when it hits, is devastating to fatigue; it only takes ~3 hits to knock an opponent unconscious, after which death is certain. This is an excellent counter to small groups of elite troops, and to lone SCs. 3) Manikins have surprisingly high magic resistance. They're still vulnerable to banish-spam, obviously, but L1 priests will only connect ~30% of the time against the standard manikin (MR=12); some of the undead animals are lower, while some are higher. 4) Pan gets several undead-only national spells. Most notably Regrowth, which gives undead the ability to regenerate. Not terribly useful for a manikin, but very nice on an undead Elephant, very very nice on a Wraith Lord, and very very very nice on a Tartarian. Puppet Mastery is also good, particularly when faced by those pesky archers or when storming a castle. 5) They're 100% poison resistant. Pan is notably lacking in battlefield damage spells for the LA. Blade wind is an option against, say, Mictlan, but most troops will be wearing too much armor for BW to be of use without Destruction. But every one of your Pans can cast Poison Cloud. 6) Pan is the Buff Master. What it lacks in direct damage spells, it more than makes up for in troop buffs. First Wooden Warriors, then Mass Protection (or Marble Warriors), then Army of Lead (or Gold). Throw on some Weapons of Sharpness & Strength of Giants, and all of a sudden the mighty Tartarians of Tien Chi are crying out to the rest of the world for help.against your shambling horde of rotting orange peels. Maybe even summon a Lamia Queen or 2 with a Panic Apostate and drop some Darkness for good measure. 7) As Pan, you'll be awash with nature gems. You'll be trying to think of ways to use them, least you feel like a total dope for having 1000 N just sitting there. Carrion Ladies are your best reanimaters/cost (2 manikins/turn @ 16N gem cost). It may not seem like much, but you can easily have 10 by turn 30...by turn 100, those 10 will have generated over 1400 free, need-not-eat, upkeep-free troops. Your 2 best reanimations are are the undead elephants & centaurs. The elephants are just like normal elephants, except they don't rout (with morale 50) & can't be soul-slayed (mindless). The centaurs are armed with a vine bow that entangles enemies, which can be surprisingly effective against small groups of elite troops. 8.28.3.2 Questions about LA Pangaea manikins -> I'll be playing LA Pangaea in a MP game soon, and I have a few questions about the Manikins and how to use them. First off, what (if anything) influences the type (& number) of Manikins you get when reanimating? corpses? temples? luck scales? growth? magic? I've run a quick test, and apparently you seem to get 1 manikin of some kind per priest level of the reanimator, regardless of other factors. Unless I missed something at least. In my test the vast majority were 'regular' chaffy humanoid or small animal types, with a few rare more useful bear, elephant, and centaur archers. I did not notice any influence from the presence of temples or corpses, though the sample size was really too small to prove anything. I only ran it with one set of scales so far. (growth 1 misfortune 2 magic 1) Apart from those I mentioned, are there any other kinds of 'better' manikins available through reanimation that I didn't get so far? I seem to remember people mentioning using an ogre manikin or something like it as a SC chassis? I might misrember though, I definitely never saw anything like it myself. You can get reanimators by using Pan's national spells in the enchantment tree, there are H1, H2 and H3 versions. Any prophetised undead can reanimate them, and any exotic trick you use to produce undead priests will presumably also allow manikin reanimation. The Carrion Woods global will produce manikins, and there are manikin and mandragora summoning spells in the construction tree. Did I miss any other means of acquiring manikins? And then, finally - but most importantly - how useful do you rate them? Their sleep vines attacks definitely are nice, and lifts them above regular undead, but their stats are absolutely crapastic and they are of course vulnerable to all the usual undead counters. The national holy spells aren't bad, but it's not like Pangaea is swimming in holy magic, so basically it'll be the same national summons you want to use for reanimation who'll have to do the buffing. Meaning they'll no longer be reanimating. Bottom line: I have my doubts about paying 25 gems for a summon who will then be able to reanimate the grand total of three chaff units per turn. Not to mention the research necessary. So what's the opinion of people who have used them already? Am I missing something? How have you made use of the Manikin spell line with Pangaea? -> I'm trying to think, I tested this myself. I think the H2-H3 can randomly summon some undead units that are above and beyond the norm like elephants and such. I figured it out before, and I can't quite remember. In terms of raw troop numbers, the H1 priests give you the best bang for your death gem bucks. Personally I think the manikins serve only one purpose; fatigue SCs to death. For a relatively large investment you get an army based alternative to the normal La Pangea Charm spam. Since the sleep vines don't care about protection, and any SC can have their defense reduced by swarming, they're quite powerful. [Response: They are MR negates though. So while I can definitely see them swarming and fatiguing MR ~20 guys, I fear they'll fail to harm SC with heavy MR equipment except in the longest of battles. (Or is the sheer number of attacks enough to overwhelm even massive MR?) Of course, a SC with heavy investment in MR might be more vulnerable to physical or elemental damage. [[Response: mr does not matter in the end. I have tested powerful scs against manikens, and though it takes a bit longer the result is inevitable-dead sc. Too many attacks, and some always get through. but you do need to have literally hundreds of them. ]] ]
With growth 3 luck 3 magic 3 and a temple: 20 'stronger' types (6 sagittarii, 6 minotaurs, 3 mandragoras, 1 elephant, 4 bears) The rest was regular chaffy stuff. With the above scales but no temple: 14 'stronger' ones (1 sagittarii, 1 minotaur, 2 mandragoras, 7 elephants, 3 bears) With death 3 misfortune 3 drain 3 and a temple: 13 stronger ones (3 sagittarii, 3 minos, 1 mandragora, 3 elephants, 3 bears) And with those scales but no temple 24 strong ones (2 Sagitarii, 6 minotaurs, 4 mandragoras, 4 elephants, 8 bears) So I'm guessing it's pretty random. The highest number of specials actually came from the 'bad scales no temple' test, but the 'good scales with temple' scenario had almost as many, and the two 'in betweens' had the least. -> I'm currently playing LA Pan in MP, though it's a CBM game, so LA Pan is really a completely different nation: in CBM, Carrion Woods is level zero, so I put it up as soon as I could and relied on the manikin/undead animal freespawn to expand. But, that makes me uniquely qualified to comment on a Pangaean undead strategy, which I've been using now for ~40 turns. I don't want to tip my hand (DonCorazon stop reading now!) but I can give you some thoughts. First, to answer a few of your questions: "Are there any other kinds of 'better' manikins available through reanimation that I didn't get so far?" Sounds like you've seen them all, though it's worth mentioning you'll occasionally get Mangradoras, which have 2 sleep vines + claw, 25hp, respectable att & def (9), and 13MR.
LA Pan has an undead "Ettin Mandragora" hero, so you'll only get it through the "Suddenly this guy appeared at your gates...!" event. It's an excellent chassis, with 3 hand slots, 2 head slots, and an L1 priest (self bless). Vine Shield + Boots of Behemoth + Regrowth and you've got an early game quasi-SC. Did I miss any other means of acquiring manikins? You can cast the Const3 spell Construct Manikin, though I don't recommend it. Now the big question: How useful do you rate them? They frankly aren't very useful on their own, BUT are very useful to LA Pangaea.
1) Manikins (and here I'm referring to all the undead stuff Pan gets) are completely different from everything else in Pan's arsenal. To counter them effectively, your opponent will need to field banish-spam priests, which diverts funds/attention from more cost-effective counters to your Minotaurs, Centaur Warriors, Dryad Hoplites, and Harpies. If he decides your manikins aren't a threat... 2) Massed manikins are surprisingly effective. The sleep vines attack, when it hits, is devastating to fatigue; it only takes ~3 hits to knock an opponent unconscious, after which death is certain. This is an excellent counter to small groups of elite troops, and to lone SCs. 3) Manikins have surprisingly high magic resistance. They're still vulnerable to banish-spam, obviously, but L1 priests will only connect ~30% of the time against the standard manikin (MR=12); some of the undead animals are lower, while some are higher. 4) Pan gets several undead-only national spells. Most notably Regrowth, which gives undead the ability to regenerate. Not terribly useful for a manikin, but very nice on an undead Elephant, very very nice on a Wraith Lord, and very very very nice on a Tartarian. Puppet Mastery is also good, particularly when faced by those pesky archers or when storming a castle. 5) They're 100% poison resistant. Pan is notably lacking in battlefield damage spells for the LA. Blade wind is an option against, say, Mictlan, but most troops will be wearing too much armor for BW to be of use without Destruction. But every one of your Pans can cast Poison Cloud. 6) Pan is the Buff Master. What it lacks in direct damage spells, it more than makes up for in troop buffs. First Wooden Warriors, then Mass Protection (or Marble Warriors), then Army of Lead (or Gold). Throw on some Weapons of Sharpness & Strength of Giants, and all of a sudden the mighty Tartarians of Tien Chi are crying out to the rest of the world for help.against your shambling horde of rotting orange peels. Maybe even summon a Lamia Queen or 2 with a Panic Apostate and drop some Darkness for good measure. 7) As Pan, you'll be awash with nature gems. You'll be trying to think of ways to use them, least you feel like a total dope for having 1000 N just sitting there. Carrion Ladies are your best reanimaters/cost (2 manikins/turn @ 16N gem cost). It may not seem like much, but you can easily have 10 by turn 30...by turn 100, those 10 will have generated over 1400 free, need-not-eat, upkeep-free troops. Your 2 best reanimations are are the undead elephants & centaurs. The elephants are just like normal elephants, except they don't rout (with morale 50) & can't be soul-slayed (mindless). The centaurs are armed with a vine bow that entangles enemies, which can be surprisingly effective against small groups of elite troops. 8.28.4 a difficult Pangaean strategy One of the biggest parts of the Pangaean theme is natural units relying on stealth over the use of standard armored armies. Probably seeking to use more guerrila warfare and avoiding conventional head-to-head conflicts. Hit and Run tactics, strikes of opportunity, spreading their strikes to make it difficult to pinpoint their center or operations (at least early in the game). Any effort to try and use Pangaea as a head-to-head army doesnt seem to work very well except possibly for late era. Lord of the Wild Death 3
Nature 4 Blood 3
These allow for casting some important national spells. Also for forging some level boosting items for later on. Turmoil 3 Same as Order -3. This raises the number of events, and increases the the number of maenads which will appear. A hit on money but thats a trade-off.
Mostly these are purchase points since I dont tend to purchase heavily armored units. Heat/Cold 0 For now I have it unchanged but it can be purchase points since Pangaea can easily take hits on income and supplies. Usually when I do I take heat since personally I hate cold. But its a topic of consideration of whether Pangaea can best stand up to cold or heat nations, and you should take the opposite scale. Growth 0 No change but thats up to individuals. Luck 3 Another way to cash in on the high turmoil. Increase the number of events even further (up to +30% now) and the chance of them being good (+39%). It can help offset the loss of money from Turmoil. Magic 3 Pushing the research since there are spells that I really need to make heavy use of. Dominion Strength of 3. Strong enough to make sure that I get the scale effects at home but not so strong that it spreads ahead of me. I want to be able to purchase troops outside of the dominion so I can get money and resource benefits. For the first turn I put everyone who isnt a mage on patrol and I turn taxes to 200%. Be sure to turn it back down on the turn that you move your armies out. Getting Mercs is of course very useful. Later using local units can be your front line for moving outward. It might be possible to use a bit of Dormancy. The large armies of maenads are more needed later on. Initially I research Evocation, then Enchantment, then Alteration, then Evocation. This gives basic combat spells which work for the levels that most mages will operate on. The Enchantment level 1 gives access to Carrion Centaur which can create free units. Then I pursue Conjuration, Conjuration, Conjuration. Vine men, Vine Ogres, Revive bane, and Call of the Wild. Then Construction, Construction. By now I will need some food cauldrons and wine skins to move my large maenad armies out of my home province. Two types of armies are being built. Non-stealth armies just for taking and holding the local provinces. And stealth armies for deeper expansion. The maenads will help create the first one. So recruiting can concentrate on the second one. Usually its a choice between creating another Pan, or an army. The army usually consists of a Centaur Hierophant, as many Centaur archers as I can get and then I remove one to allow for, as many Harpy as I have space for. I send out scouts to find the other nations. Then I move my stealth armies in that direction. Download 5.74 Mb. Share with your friends:
|