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++++Message 1608. . . . . . . . . . . . Periodical Literature, The Amarillo, October 22, 1944

From: NMOlson@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/22/2004 3:35:00 AM


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THE LOST WEEKEND
Charles Jackson gives us five days out of a man's life while in the

flamboyant arms of alcohol; this type of a book might have been burdensome

or highly sensational--instead the author has given as clear a picture of

what goes on in the mind of an alcoholic as is probably possible. William

Seabrook treated the matter completely in his ASYLUM, but this is the

meticulous and factual account of a good mind holding its own throughout the

flattering of the ego and the anti-social aspects produced by excessive

drinking.


To the layman, alcoholism is merely a state of being drunk, of intoxication;

but to those who have studied psychopathic trends, alcoholism is a release

of all that man has within him, it is the highest and at once the lowest.

Within the confines of the bonds of this stimulant, man achieves his

loftiest ambitions in thought, experiences and aberrations to do with

everything from theft to possible murder, which the true alcoholic shuns. As

the book and serious writers on the subject point out, it is only the drug

addict who will kill to satisfy his appetite. Alcoholics may beg, steal,

borrow or pawn to satisfy that thirst, but murder as a general rule is

foreign to such a disturbed mind.


Mr. Jackson has contributed what is possibly the finest study in print of

true alcoholism from the standpoint of the afflicted; his book is a

priceless primer toward understanding of that great number who find escape

for such a short time down the drinkers' road. After so much trash has been

written on this and kindred subjects, concerning the 'escapist' side of man,

this book should prove invaluable to mankind to understanding not only

alcoholics, but his own reactions based upon whole or part intoxication. Mr.

Jackson is not the type of writer to soft-pedal his ideas, but the sex angle

of this book is well into the background and hardly raises its inquiring

head; of course this might be different in relation to the

subject--assuredly women alcoholics react differently than the males, but in

all people of this type, the sex-life plays a dominant part and this author

has given full scope to the possibility if not elaborating upon it. To those

who have seen patients of this type by the dozens, confined behind

institution walls, this book will find a welcome world of avid readers; to

those whose lives are touched with the "fiery fumes" of this line of escape,

let them read and analyze for themselves, forgetting that dreams are all

necessary to escape the realities of life. No human being should miss this

book, moreover, no human being can afford to.
Source: The Amarillo, October 22, 1944
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++++Message 1610. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: re: clapboard factory explosion

From: Jim Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/22/2004 3:40:00 PM


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DAvid wrote
Does anyone know if the Wombleys clapboard factory explosion (

referenced in Tradition 4 in the 12&12 ) was an actual event, or just a

figure of speech.
I had a discussion with Ozzie Lepper who runs the Wison House in East

Dorset and he claims that the foundations of the clapboard factory can

still be seen.

Jim
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++++Message 1611. . . . . . . . . . . . Origin of Rule #62

From: timwarner1990 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/22/2004 3:19:00 PM


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Hi everybody,
First of all, please forgive me if this subject has been addressed

previously. I did use the search function in both the

AAHISTORYLOVERS and the AAHISTORYBUFFS groups, to no avail.
Could someone please point me to a description of the origin of our

beloved Rule #62? I'm almost positive that I heard Bill W. describe

the origins of this term on a speaker tape, but I can't for the life

of me remember which speech it was.


The more detail you could provide, the better. Thanks so much.
Yours,

Tim W.
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++++Message 1612. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Origin of Rule #62

From: Arthur Sheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/23/2004 12:12:00 PM


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Hi Tim - Following are some published sources:
Not God, pg 107: This reference suggests that the 'super-promoter" sobered

up in early 1940. He first wrote to the Alcoholic Foundation outlining his

ideas and applying for a "super-charter." The letter on "rule #62" came

later after the ideas collapsed.


AA Grapevine, August 1952 on Tradition Four: This reference is the initial

version of the essay material later incorporated into the 12&12 and AA Comes

of Age. Bill's first editorial on (the long form of) Tradition Four, in the

March 1948 Grapevine, makes no mention of the rule #62 story.


Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, pgs 147-149: Published in 1953, this is

the generally accepted source of the story.


AA Comes of Age, pgs 103-104: Published in 1957, this version of the story

just mentions a "clapboard factory" and not "Wombley's Clapboard Factory" to

describe the collapse of the grandiose plan. This was part of Bill W's

Second Legacy talk at the historic 20th Anniversary Convention in St Louis,

MO.
The rule #62 story is an endearing one and I believe it sometimes

overshadows the central notion of Tradition Four that "every group has the

right to be wrong." One other thing, is that sometimes this Tradition

unfortunately gets interpreted as an all-too-convenient loophole to

arbitrarily ignore the principles embedded in the Traditions.
Cheers

Arthur
----- Original Message -----

From: timwarner1990

Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:19 PM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Origin of Rule #62
Hi everybody,
First of all, please forgive me if this subject has been addressed

previously. I did use the search function in both the

AAHISTORYLOVERS and the AAHISTORYBUFFS groups, to no avail.
Could someone please point me to a description of the origin of our

beloved Rule #62? I'm almost positive that I heard Bill W. describe

the origins of this term on a speaker tape, but I can't for the life

of me remember which speech it was.


The more detail you could provide, the better. Thanks so much.
Yours,

Tim W.
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++++Message 1613. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Bob''s Last Drink

From: NMOlson@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/24/2004 3:21:00 AM


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The following question was received recently from Ted C. in Australia:
Subject: Dr Bob's Last Drink
Can anyone ascertain the EXACT date of Dr Bob's last drink.
Assuming the medical convention that he attended in June actually started on

the 10th, as reported on this forum, and given the travelling time back from

Atlantic City. Add to that the blackout that he had.(pp73-74 Dr Bob & the

GOT) etc., and considering that surgeons only operated on perhaps one day a

week, an exact date could be ascertained.
TedC
I sent him this response, but I do not think it has been previously posted:
This article is written by nationally recognized historian and oft-quoted

Alcoholics Anonymous archivist Mitchell K.


Dr. Bob's Last Drink
Bill W. had met a kindred spirit in Dr. Bob. Both men were born in Vermont,

both were intelligent and both were alcoholics. They somehow knew that

fateful evening in Henrietta Seiberling's Gatehouse home both of them were

going to be okay.


Dr. Bob kept his promise to Anne. That is, until he boarded the train to

Atlantic City.


After a few weeks of working with each other and attempting to deliver the

message of recovery to other alcoholics Bill and Dr. Bob did not appear to

be discouraged. Despite their not being able to bring another rummy into the

fold -- they were staying sober. Quite a feat for Dr. Bob who had been

attending Oxford Group meetings even prior to getting together with Bill.
Dr. Bob was feeling so secure that he decided to attend a convention of the

American Medical Association. He had not missed a convention in 20 years and

did not plan on missing this one. Bob's wife, Anne was set against him

attending the convention. She remembered previous ones where he had gotten

drunk.
Dr. Bob assured her that he would not drink. He said that alcoholics, even

those who had stopped drinking, would have to begin to learn how to live in

the real world. She finally agreed and off he went.
Dr. Bob kept his promise to Anne. That is, until he boarded the train to

Atlantic City. Once on the train Dr. Bob began to drink in earnest. He drank

all the way to Atlantic City, purchased more bottles prior to checking in to

the hotel. That was on a Sunday evening.


Dr. Bob stayed sober on Monday until after dinner. He then resumed his

drinking. Upon awakening Tuesday morning his drinking continued until noon.

He then realized that he was about to disgrace himself by showing up at the

convention drunk.


24-Hour Blackout
He decided to check out of the hotel and return home. He purchased more

alcohol on the way to the train depot. He waited for the train for a long

time and continued to drink. That was all he remembered until waking up in

the home of his office nurse and her husband back in Ohio.


In order to insure the steadiness of Dr. Bob's hands during the operation

Bill gave him a bottle of beer.


Dr. Bob's blackout lasted over 24 hours. There was a five-day period from

when Dr. Bob left for the convention to when the nurse called Anne and Bill.

They took Dr. Bob home and put him to bed. The detoxification process began

once again. That process usually lasted three days according to Bill. They

tapered Dr. Bob off of alcohol and fed him a diet of sauerkraut, tomato

juice and Karo Syrup.


Bill had remembered that in three days, Dr. Bob was scheduled to perform

surgery. On the day of the surgery, Dr. Bob had recovered sufficiently to go

to work. In order to insure the steadiness of Dr. Bob's hands during the

operation Bill gave him a bottle of beer. That was to be Dr. Bob's last

drink and the "official" Founding date of Alcoholics Anonymous.
The operation was a success and Dr. Bob did not return home right after it.

Both Bill and Anne were concerned to say the least. They later found out,

after Dr. Bob had returned, that he was out making amends. Not drunk as they

may have surmised, but happy and sober. That date according to the AA

literature was June 10, 1935.
June 10, 1935, has been considered as AA's Founding Date for many years.

After all, it was the date Dr. Bob had his last drink -- or was it? Recently

discovered evidence appears to differ with the "official" literature.
The "Official" Date
The Archives of the American Medical Association reportedly show that their

convention in Atlantic City, in the year 1935 did not start until June 10th.

How could Dr. Bob have gone to the convention, by train -- check into a

hotel -- attend the convention on Monday -- check out on Tuesday -- be in a

blackout for 24 hours -- go through a three-day detoxification -- perform

surgery on the day of his last drink -- June 10, 1935?


It now appears that the date of Dr. Bob's last drink was probably on, or

about, June 17, 1935.


Five days had passed since Dr. Bob left for the convention and returned to

Akron. There was the three-day detoxification process and then there was the

day of the surgery. Approximately nine days had passed from when he left and

the date of his last drink.


If the records of the American Medical Association are in error as to the

date of their convention it is possible that June 10, 1935, was the date of

Dr. Bob's last drink. If the records are in error, the 1935 convention would

have been the only one in the history of the American Medical Association

that was listed with the wrong date.
It now appears that the date of Dr. Bob's last drink was probably on, or

about, June 17, 1935. Maybe AA should keep the June 10th date as a symbolic

Founding Date rather than claim it as the actual one? Maybe the date should

be changed to reflect historical accuracy?


Either way, Dr. Bob never drank again until his death, November 16, 1950.

Dr. Bob sponsored more than 5,000 AA members and left the legacy of his life

as an example. Dr. Bob told those he sponsored that there were three things

one had to do to keep sober:


TRUST GOD, CLEAN HOUSE, HELP OTHERS.
More will be revealed…
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++++Message 1614. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Dr. Bob''s Last Drink

From: Arthur . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/24/2004 6:57:00 PM


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Hi Ted
The date of June 17 looks pretty compelling as Dr Bob's dry date. Barefoot Bill obtained confirmation from the AMA Archives in Chicago, IL that the 1935 Atlantic City, NJ Convention was held from Mon to Fri, June 10-14, 1935. Also, there is a graphic of the AMA convention program circulating on the web and it clearly indicates June 10-14. There are also good clues in the literature for a deduction.
*In AA Comes of Age (pgs 70-71*) Bill writes "So he [Dr Bob] went to the Atlantic City Medical Convention and nothing was heard of him for several days."
*In Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers (pgs 72-75)* it cites (with my editing for brevity)
Dr Bob ... began drinking … as he boarded the train to Atlantic City. On his arrival he bought several quarts on his way to the hotel. That was Sunday night. He stayed sober on Monday until after dinner... On Tuesday, Bob started drinking in the morning and … [checked out of the hotel]… The next thing he knew … he was … in the … home

of his office nurse... The blackout was certainly more than 24 hours long … Bill and Anne had waited for five days from the time Bob left before they heard from the nurse... She had picked him up that morning at the Akron railroad station...


As Bill and Sue remembered, there was a 3-day sobering up period... Upon Dr Bob's return, they had discovered that he was due to perform surgery 3 days later... At 4 o'clock on the morning of the operation [Bob] … said "I am going through with this...'' On the way to City Hospital ... Bill … gave him a beer…
*In the video Bill's Own Story,* Bill says he gave Dr Bob a beer and a "goofball" [a barbiturate] on the morning of the surgery. The same information is repeated in *Pass It On, pgs 147-149*.
See also *Not God, pgs 32-33.*
Estimate on the turn of events:
*June** Dr Bob*
09 Sunday Checked into Atlantic City Hotel (started drinking on the train on the way in)
10 Monday Stayed sober until after dinner
11 Tuesday Began drinking in the morning - later checked out of the hotel.
12 Wednesday Went into blackout (likely greater than 24 hours)
13 Thursday Blackout continues (may have arrived at Akron train station)
14 Friday Picked up by nurse in the morning at the train station

Then picked up by Bill at nurse's house (5 days after leaving)


Day 1 of 3-day dry out period
15 Saturday Day 2 of 3-day dry out period
16 Sunday Day 3 of 3-day dry out period
17 Monday Day of surgery - Bill gives Bob a beer and a goofball (3 days after Bob's return)
Cheers

Arthur
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: NMOlson@aol.com

Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 7:21 AM

Subject: Dr. Bob's Last Drink
The following question was received recently from Ted C. in Australia:
Subject: Dr Bob's Last Drink
Can anyone ascertain the *EXACT* date of Dr Bob's last drink.
Assuming the medical convention that he attended in June actually started on

the 10th, as reported on this forum, and given the travelling time back from

Atlantic City. Add to that the blackout that he had.(pp73-74 Dr Bob & the

GOT) etc., and considering that surgeons only operated on perhaps one day a

week, an exact date could be ascertained.
TedC
I sent him this response, but I do not think it has been previously posted:
This article is written by nationally recognized historian and oft-quoted

Alcoholics Anonymous archivist Mitchell K.


Dr. Bob's Last Drink
Bill W. had met a kindred spirit in Dr. Bob. Both men were born in Vermont,

both were intelligent and both were alcoholics. They somehow knew that

fateful

evening in Henrietta Seiberling's Gatehouse home both of them were going to



be

okay.
Dr. Bob kept his promise to Anne. That is, until he boarded the train to

Atlantic City.
After a few weeks of working with each other and attempting to deliver the

message of recovery to other alcoholics Bill and Dr. Bob did not appear to

be

discouraged. Despite their not being able to bring another rummy into the



fold

-- they were staying sober. Quite a feat for Dr. Bob who had been attending

Oxford Group meetings even prior to getting together with Bill.
Dr. Bob was feeling so secure that he decided to attend a convention of the

American Medical Association. He had not missed a convention in 20 years and

did not plan on missing this one. Bob's wife, Anne was set against him

attending the convention. She remembered previous ones where he had gotten

drunk.
Dr. Bob assured her that he would not drink. He said that alcoholics, even

those who had stopped drinking, would have to begin to learn how to live in

the

real world. She finally agreed and off he went.


Dr. Bob kept his promise to Anne. That is, until he boarded the train to

Atlantic City. Once on the train Dr. Bob began to drink in earnest. He drank

all the way to Atlantic City, purchased more bottles prior to checking in to

the hotel. That was on a Sunday evening.


Dr. Bob stayed sober on Monday until after dinner. He then resumed his

drinking.

Upon awakening Tuesday morning his drinking continued until noon. He then

realized that he was about to disgrace himself by showing up at the

convention

drunk.
24-Hour Blackout


He decided to check out of the hotel and return home. He purchased more

alcohol


on the way to the train depot. He waited for the train for a long time and

continued to drink. That was all he remembered until waking up in the home

of

his office nurse and her husband back in Ohio.


In order to insure the steadiness of Dr. Bob's hands during the operation

Bill


gave him a bottle of beer.
Dr. Bob's blackout lasted over 24 hours. There was a five-day period from

when


Dr. Bob left for the convention to when the nurse called Anne and Bill. They

took Dr. Bob home and put him to bed. The detoxification process began once

again. That process usually lasted three days according to Bill. They

tapered


Dr. Bob off of alcohol and fed him a diet of sauerkraut, tomato juice and

Karo


Syrup.
Bill had remembered that in three days, Dr. Bob was scheduled to perform

surgery. On the day of the surgery, Dr. Bob had recovered sufficiently to go

to

work. In order to insure the steadiness of Dr. Bob's hands during the



operation

Bill gave him a bottle of beer. That was to be Dr. Bob's last drink and the

"official"

Founding date of Alcoholics Anonymous.


The operation was a success and Dr. Bob did not return home right after it.

Both Bill and Anne were concerned to say the least. They later found out,

after

Dr. Bob had returned, that he was out making amends. Not drunk as they may



have

surmised, but happy and sober. That date according to the AA literature was

June 10, 1935.
June 10, 1935, has been considered as AA's Founding Date for many years.

After


all, it was the date Dr. Bob had his last drink -- or was it? Recently

discovered evidence appears to differ with the "official" literature.


The "Official" Date
The Archives of the American Medical Association reportedly show that their

convention in Atlantic City, in the year 1935 did not start until June 10th.

How could Dr. Bob have gone to the convention, by train -- check into a

hotel


-- attend the convention on Monday -- check out on Tuesday -- be in a

blackout


for 24 hours -- go through a three-day detoxification -- perform surgery on

the


day of his last drink -- June 10, 1935?
It now appears that the date of Dr. Bob's last drink was probably on, or

about,


June 17, 1935.
Five days had passed since Dr. Bob left for the convention and returned to

Akron. There was the three-day detoxification process and then there was the

day of the surgery. Approximately nine days had passed from when he left and

the date of his last drink.


If the records of the American Medical Association are in error as to the

date


of their convention it is possible that June 10, 1935, was the date of Dr.

Bob's last drink. If the records are in error, the 1935 convention would

have

been the only one in the history of the American Medical Association that



was

listed with the wrong date.


It now appears that the date of Dr. Bob's last drink was probably on, or

about,


June 17, 1935. Maybe AA should keep the June 10th date as a symbolic

Founding


Date rather than claim it as the actual one? Maybe the date should be

changed


to reflect historical accuracy?
Either way, Dr. Bob never drank again until his death, November 16, 1950.

Dr.


Bob sponsored more than 5,000 AA members and left the legacy of his life as

an

example. Dr. Bob told those he sponsored that there were three things one



had

to do to keep sober:


TRUST GOD, CLEAN HOUSE, HELP OTHERS.
More will be revealed…
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++++Message 1615. . . . . . . . . . . . Closing statement

From: friendofbillw89 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/25/2004 10:01:00 PM


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