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26 Responses to “The Stupid 365 Project, Day 47: Quality of, um, Life” -
philip coggan Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 1:38 am
Never trust official statistics: Japan has one of the world’s highest suicide rates, and one of the lowest murder rates. This is entirely due to the desire of the Japanese police to have a high clear-up rate – hellovalota suicides in Japan would be otherwise if the poor unfortunates took their lives in New York.
But within countries, there are intriguing blips. Suicide is higher in the countryside than in the city (in Australia at least). Why? Maybe the access to guns, which are far more readily available in the country (in Australia at least). Or maybe life amidst the gumtrees is really tougher – incomes are certainly lower, and isolation greater.
Since you’re American, and since the others here are mostly the same, I wonder what a closer look at US figures would tell us? Is suicide more popular in the South or in the North? Amongst professed Christians are free-wheeling liberals? (Christians have higher murder rates, higher divorce rates, and higher rates of illegitimate births). How about socio-economic status – does greater wealth lead to greater happiness and therefore lower suicide rates? So much to do, so little time to do it…
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Gary Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 2:22 am
The last four countries on your list have a zero suicide rate. It follows, therefore, that all the countries not listed must be off the end, i.e. also zero.
So if I were to move from Australia to, say, Cambodia… I’d never die!
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LC Evans Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 6:02 am
Interesting post, Timothy. I think you’re right–a few good photos and you may be discovered by The Huffington Post.
I often think it would be fun to go live in some other country, but I know myself too well. I’d be so homesick for the home I have now. Not that it’s paradise, but I would miss all the familiar things around me.
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Bonnie Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 7:45 am
Tim, do you know how your statistics treated legal assisted suicide?
LC: I went to live in Austria (after being raised on the West Coast and in Arizona) when I was only 19. Though I did miss certain things, I ended up feeling more at home there than in the US for many reasons. Even now, after being back for 25 years, I feel a bit alien here.
Some people can visit a country and think how quaint, this is lovely, good-bye. Others find in another culture or geography –or whatever that magical mix consists of–the home of their heart. Many words have probably been expended trying to explain it…
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EverettK Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 8:15 am
Good points, all. Of course, what makes one person suicidal might prevent another’s suicide. All those suicides in the outback, many might not have despaired had they more social contact. In the cities, those suicides might have survived with LESS social contact.
Complex situations. But definitely one interesting way at looking at the “best and worst places to live (or not).”
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Suzanna Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 9:16 am
Hi,
There are definite factors at play in terms of suicide and where you choose to live according to a recent study done at the University of Florida, which in 2004 had one of the very highest suicide rates in the U.S. Three factors contributed significantly to higher suicide rates according to this study: greater access to guns, (overall the number one method of suicide) living in a sparsely populated area, and having little or no access to a mental health facility.
Tim, I am sure the National Suicide Prevention organization would be happy that you brought this subject into the light even if the Huff Post wouldn’t appreciate its complexity.
And, thanks, I look forward to your lighter post tomorrow. Until then time to get outside in the sunshine and muck around in the garden.
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Suzanna Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 9:21 am
Oh brother. Here I go again. The University of Florida did not have the highest suicide rate in 2004 but the state of Florida did.
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Suzanna Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 9:40 am
More. Egg. On. Face.
In 2004 Florida had ONE of the highest rates of suicide in the U.S., NOT the highest.
Top three were Alaska, Montana, and Nevada.
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Timothy Hallinan Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 9:41 am
GOOD MORNING, everyone!!! How nice to chat about suicide over the morning coffee, or tea in Lil’s and Suzanna’s case.
Philip, very interesting — Japan ranks #5, but you’re saying the Japanese police call some murders suicides if they don’t/can’t solve them, so the actual rate is lower, even though if there were one country in the world identifies with suicide, it would be Japan. My, my. Re: the US, I doubt stats are kept by religion or income level, but geographically, the West has the highest level of suicides and the Northeast has the lowest, so there goes the warm-weather variable. Also, despite the east coast cliches about the pistol-packing West, this is the only region in which guns are NOT the primary bye-bye of choice. And I’ll bet, once you get outside Australia, that in most industrialized countries the rates are higher in the cities than in the sparsely populated areas.
But what do I know?
Gary. it hadn’t occurred to me that Cambodia wasn’t on the list at all. Perhaps it has a lower than .0 suicide rate as a result of especially intense reincarnation activity. No matter how many suicides there might be, there’s a net gain. Or something.
Hi, LC, and glad to see you here. I envy you being happiest at home. I have two homes on two continents, and whichever one I’m in, I constantly want to be in the other one, or — best of all — someplace I’ve never been at all. I’m exhilarated when I’m somewhere where I don’t even know how to buy toothpaste. Fortunately, it’s still a wide world.
Bonnie, I don’t know whether legal, assisted suicide was in the stats, although in the enlightened countries where it is allowed by law, there’d be no reason to suppress the numbers. One thing I’m pretty certain of is that it’s unrepresented in the U.S., except for a few humane states — wonder if Oregon is one reason the West ranks highest? And I know a lot about getting hijacked by another culture — Southeast Asia was for me what Austria was to you. The best check of the strength of a country’s spell, it seems to me, is whether it persists when all the surface glamor and exoticism have faded, and you realize that what looks so fascinating and fresh to you is, to the people who live there, just Tuesday.
Everett!! My man!! Okay, that’s enough of that. Great point — what makes one suicidal might prevent suicide in another. The index I’d like to look at are the correlations between suicide and overall life expectancy, and suicide and the frequency of certain diseases.
Also, of course, this is all deeply flawed data, since governments manipulate it or fail to collect it or collect it but don’t report it. And I’m sure the less-developed world’s data is sketchy at best.
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Eric Stone Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Part of the problem in some of our more highly developed countries is that they are making it more difficult to commit suicide. The 80-something year old father of a friend of mine made a valiant attempt last year. First, he swallowed a huge number of sleeping pills. Then before they took affect, he trundled out to the garage, got into his car, rolled down the windows, made sure the garage door was closed and turned on the engine.
Eighteen hours later he was discovered by a neighbor – dehydrated and a bit out of it, but very much alive. An overnight in the hospital later and he was just fine.
Turned out that the sleeping pills were Ambien – which is nearly impossible to overdose on unless you choke on it.
And the car was a new super low emission vehicle that didn’t crank out enough carbon monoxide to kill him.
Foiled, yet again, by modern technology.
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Trevel Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 9:59 am
To add, are these numbers for successful suicide or attempted suicide? I suspect the former, and I would think the latter would have more to do with the contentment levels of the population.
I’d also be curious about separating teenage suicides from other suicides. Those have more to do with the educational system than the rest of the culture/country — all part of quality of life, mind, but different slices.
Incidentally, congratulations on being slightly more than a quarter of the way through your project.
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Trevel Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 10:03 am
I must apologize for my lack of math skills; I, too, have been working on a writing project, if less public than yours, and I’d apparently shut down the part of my brain that uses math to conserve power. (And the logical parts are, naturally, reserved for Everett’s games.) One eighth. Not one quarter.
Is it too late to claim I’m a time traveler, back from a few months in the future?
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Timothy Hallinan Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Oh, well Suzanna, it’s nothing to kill yourself over. You look great with egg on your face — you might consider it as a fashion accessory. It’s also interesting to me that everyone blames the availability of guns and I’d love to see a global study broken out by weapon of choice.
Eric, I would hate to fail at suicide because everyone would get irritated and see it as “a call for attention: when what it really was, was an attempt to die. But your friend’s father’s attempt reminds me of the only poem I actually know by heart, by Dorothy Parker, who tried several times:
Razors pain you
Rivers are damp
Acids stain you
And drugs cause cramp.
Gas smells awful
Nooses give.
Guns aren’t lawful;
You might as well live.
Parker (as I think I’ve written earlier here) was in the habit of slashing her wrists and after her release from the hospital would tie trailing black velvet ribbons over the bandages. Talk about a conversation-stopper.
Trevel, thanks for the congrats, and I have to admit that my heart leapt when I saw “one-quarter” and then dropped like a stone when I realized it wasn’t so. There are no statistics easily available on global suicide attempts (it’s entirely my fault that I’m having this conversation, and I have to keep reminding myself of that) and I likewise don’t know of a database that separates teenagers out, although I’d bet anything that there’s one that sorts more generally by age. I think teenage issues are teenage issues everywhere and, as you suggest, might not relate much to the national averages or even the causes of adult suicide in those countries.
SO . . . What are we all doing tomorrow?
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Lil Gluckstern Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Most of the prime indicators for suicidal tendencies point to social isolation as a major factor. Now one can be as lonely in a crowd as in the outback, but I do think it has something to do with the sense of isolation, rather than the fact. None of this clears anything up, of course, because ultimately it is the feeling of being at home that matters, no matter where you are. Also I wonder how these countries line up in terms of optimism, and hope for a better future. This is an unending topic for discussion, so I will get my tea now, and think of better things. BTW, I saw Everett’s posting DorothyL, and just smiled. See how nice your blog is-you make me smile.
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Timothy Hallinan Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 11:22 am
By the way, kids in the U.S. between 5 and 24 commit suicide at the rate of a little less than 12 per 100,000, which is a comparatively low rate. White guys are way, way out front — 19.5 per 100K, compared to 9 for black males and 4.6 for white females.
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EverettK Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 11:48 am
I suspect that much of the anti-suicide sentiment stems from religious roots, selfishness, and fear. Some folks think killing yourself is morally wrong, because God reserves that right for himself (itself? sheself? seself? heh-heh) Some hate suicide, because they don’t want to lose loved ones. Others hate it because it makes them think of their own mortality, which scares the sh*t out of them. Yes, there are many reasons to think it’s wrong, but…
We all share two things in common: we were born, and we are all going to die. It’s just a matter of timing. I, myself, me, myself and I, have plenty of joy and desire left to live, and can’t say I’ve ever come anywhere close to be in enough pain (physical or mental) to think of ending this reality. But I’ve known enough people who have been in sufficient pain, or old and tired, or both, that they could see no reason to keep sucking in air…
Makes me glad I live in Oregon. Gray, wet, cool winters and all.  Yes, assisted suicide can be abused, but there’s no sense throwing the infant human out with the cleaning medium. (Now doesn’t that bring to mind a picture of a psychic house-cleaner?)
For those who may be too young to have seen it, an excellent movie on the subject is 1981′s “Whose Life Is It Anyway?” with Richard Dreyfuss, in case anyone feels like spending MORE time thinking about this subject.
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Larissa Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
what am i doing tomorrow? not killing myself apparently according to the statistics. And no dogging on mountains-I’ll start getting mean  Grew up in Colorado-which means I can appreciate a real landscape when I see one…aka one that has MOUNTAINS! (c: Ahem. Besides, what else am I supposed to ride a bike down? Oh the pains of living in the midwest.
I think all the semi suicidals out there should move to the happiest places and then off themselves-just to screw up the numbers.
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Suzanna Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Ha Ha, Tim. No worries, I won’t be resorting to any drastic measures to relieve myself of my EGG ON FACE moment from this morning. Nor will I figure out a way to turn my egg on face moment into a fashion statement, but I’ve heard that egg whites make a great facial so at least there’s that.
I remember that movie, Everett. The Sea Inside is another good movie about the same dilemma.
Curious about a lot of the questions raised here and discovered that the National Institute of Mental Health website covers most of the issues people are wondering about.
Tomorrow, you ask? I hope to be reading an amusing story by my favorite writer. Hint. Hint.
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Timothy Hallinan Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Lil, Everett’s point — “what makes one suicidal might prevent suicide in another” — is definitely true of me. Like a lot of writers, I can not only endure, but enjoy, almost endless periods of solitude, which is, of course, because we all have a kind of mild multiple personality disorder. My idea of a great month is one that stretches absolutely empty in front of me, where all I have to do is feed myself, shower, and write. I’d be more likely to kill myself in a crowd. I don’t know about the factors at work in any broad sense — it amazes me, for example, that Canada has a higher rate than the USA. Almost the only thing I find predictable is that rates are unusually high in the wasteland of desolation and mistrust the Soviet Union left behind it. And I’d be interested to see a breakdown of German suicides devided into East and West.
Everett, I’m completely with you. Surely, of all things in a life, nothing should belong more completely to someone than hir death. (See how I sneaked that in?) The various churches can keep their ecclesiastical paws off my life and my death, and I’ll also worry about my conscience, thanks very much. And don’t hand me that donation plate.
Omigod, Riss, I knew someone would defend mountains, but I never thought it would be you. I mean, I normally don’t associate the word “mountain” with the word “Kansas.” So you’re from Colorado, huh? Why’d you leave? Why’d you leave?
Glad to hear you’ll be with us tomorrow, Suze. The old place wouldn’t be the same without you. But tomorrow’s story is faaaarrrrrr from amusing. (Foreboding music — maybe the Winged Monkeys theme from “The Wizard of Oz”) It’s very, very, very . . . I have no idea, actually.
But one thing I CAN tell you: The Thanksgiving story is deeply, abysmally stupid.
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Larissa Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Hehe. I never moved as a child-ever-and I tend to be of the wandering spirit type so when it came time to go to college I booked it. I didn’t really choose MoKan because of the scenary or night life but because they happened to have the art school that taught the kind of art I wanted to do–and it was just far enough away that “going home” was a roadtrip.
We make do out here-there’s actually a great set of mountain bike trails both in KC and just outside of KC. Not Colorado but fun.
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Phil Hanson Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Nice conundrum, Tim; .0 suicides in Haiti, yet it seems suicidal to live there. Go figure.
On the matter of death, whether by suicide, murder, accident or natural causes, my outlook becomes ever more philosophical. Death, by whatever means it takes, frees us to explore parts of the universe that are inaccessible because of our current state of being.
That’s not to say that I’d gladly welcome death’s early arrival; I wouldn’t. But mine is more of a desire to witness the collapse of empire than it is to prolong my life to the point of absurdity (some will argue that I already have). For me, avoiding the pain that often accompanies death seems more desirable than avoiding death itself. But there are apps for that.
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Bonnie Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Suzanna, how about this for an accessory: http://www.etsy.com/listing/55373971/fried-egg-earrings-nickel-free
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Timothy Hallinan Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Forget Suzanna, Bonnie — I want a pair. They’re adorable.
Phil, you’re right, of course, about the difference in the rate between the US and Haiti, but I think the more people have, the more they want. It’s about the only point on which I agree with traditionalist Islam — all that greasy abundance isn’t necessarily good for one’s character.
Death, unless, of course, it’s painful, is just not getting up in the morning. Maybe you continue to dream, maybe you just become an interesting source of nitrogen, which is why I want to be cremated and then have a rose planted just above my ashes. In fact, there’s a cemetary in CRASHED based on that idea, and I’d go for it in a moment if the option were available to me. The hardest thing about death, of course, is watching others die, the people you once hoped you would be with forever. Wish there were apps for that.
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EverettK Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Larissa said: there’s actually a great set of mountain bike trails both in KC and just outside of KC.
A mountain bike in Kansas or Missouri?
That’s just ….WRONG!
Sorry, you suckered me in: it was such a nice, fat, slow pitch.
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Suzanna Says:
November 17th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Bonnie, for only 5 dollars a pair I could afford to buy two pairs. One for each of us, if you like.
You too, Tim, if you really really want a pair of tiny fried egg drop earrings.
Or if you’d prefer:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roscata/4186995296/
I love etsy by the way. Great stuff.
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Jaden Says:
November 21st, 2010 at 7:09 am
I suspect the reported suicide rates in places like Haiti are far removed from the actual rates. Many people there have an understandable distrust of the government and wouldn’t necessarily report a suicide. So many deaths occur outside of hospitals and without a physician in attendance.
And…I wonder if spending most of one’s life in survival mode makes a person less likely to commit suicide. If you’re always in danger of losing your life, maybe you tend to hang onto it more dearly. Or maybe there’s no need to officially commit suicide when all you have to do is give up the struggle to stay alive.
Tim, I totally agree with you about the former Soviet Union.
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