Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page

San Diego Young Men's group is reported to have begun in Oct 46 -that 1948

article

beginning.

> The 35 and Younger Group(Young Peoples Group) was started February 1946

by

> Art L, and Bates Mc L. in Philadelphia, Pa. Being under 30 years of age

> thought that AA wasn't doing such a good job with the younger

alcoholic. They

> started a weekly monday meeting for members of AA under 35 years of

age. The

> group had several female members. They felt they could deal with

members who

> were younger and had not yet hit as low a bottom as older members. They

had

> parties, picnic's and other social events as well as the AA meetings.

members,

> got in a car and went to Niagra Falls for the 1st Young Peoples

convention.Most

> of those that attended the workshop had a love of life and of each

other and

> were all over 50 years of continuous sobriety.

> The group will celebrate 60 years on Tuesday, February 14th at 7 P.M.

at

> 4021 Walnut St. Philadelphia,Pennsylvania.

> there may have been another group in the Los Angeles area.

> Yours in Service,

> Shakey Mike G.

>
-----------------------------

(c) Grapevine, November 1946

What Do You Think About Youth Group In Philadelphia?

From Philadelphia

A group of A.A.s has been formed at Philadelphia for men and women, 35 years

of

age

only

of whom had been dry the four months required for voting membership. This

membership

has since been expanded to about thirty, nearly half of whom have been dry

over

four

We were under the impression when we began this group that we were

trailblazers

in

the field, but reports from some of our visiting A.A.s have indicated that

has

pioneer

to

hear

experience

with young people and with such organizations as ours if they have been

attempted.

We were slow in getting started with our group and we are still proceeding

with

prevention

than in cure. Most young people have not been hurt badly enough or often

enough,

they think, to feel that they are in any need of what we in A.A. have to

offer.

It is

relapses,

and that our progress will of necessity be slow. However, many of our later

members

stuck to

Let's hear from other groups. We would like your suggestions, advice,

criticism

and

(c) Grapevine, May 1948

Young Men Solve Meeting Problems

from San Diego, Calif.

S.

of

A.A.

Women's

(under 35), and the Young Men's Group (under 40). These groups have been

very

successful and seem to have tapped an unending source of new A.A.s.

Doe, I'd

drinking, too." It was rather disheartening to listen to someone tell

of 20

years of

could

approximate the same low bottom. These "old goats" gave us the

idea we had to

hit

two or more

trips

to psychopathic wards, before we were ready for A.A. It gave us the feeling

couldn't make the Program because we hadn't been knocked around enough.

The first accomplishment noted by the Young Men's Group soon became its

strongest

selling point: It had automatically raised the level for the young man's

turning

The older person's problems are greatly different from ours. There was no

education

on things alcoholic when they were our age, therefore they had to go down

until

their

almost

better

a

much

it is

wife

more apt to resent the husband's attendance at closed meetings.

The vast majority of our members are combat veterans with some horrible

memories in

their minds. The older members have the same memories but time does do a lot

to

erase

but

of us have put away a surprising amount of GI alcohol, de-icer fluid (that

was

what

drinks

The younger man has an inherent cockiness that gives him a bit of trouble

once

in a

problems

problems and

many

others, we believe, can best be solved by a Young Men's Group.

six

men and 20 of the older men in attendance. The second meeting saw 15 young

fellows

and 23 "old goats" attending. The "old goats" stayed

by

which time we had such a large attendance it was necessary to form a new

Left on our own, we changed to roundtable type meetings and outlawed any

applause for

the speakers. The newer men soon found it was quite easy to speak since it

was

no

longer necessary to stand in front of an audience. Also, some of the quieter

found it easy to question the speaker since it wasn't necessary to address

the

chair.

understanding

and, generally speaking, better working of the A.A. Program. The younger

fellows

the

and

barred.

of

their

On the whole, our group has been a great success. Some of the boys have

naturally

dropped by the wayside, but most of these have re-enlisted in A.A. and are

now

doing

their

played a

part in selling them on this new way of life. The temporary win and lose

columns

of

A.A. will show our group with an exceptionally high percentage in the win

For almost 17 months, our active member list has averaged about 50 men and

the

average meeting will find around 30 members attending. Holidays have not

attendance. Rather, it has been found that the men are glad that their

meeting

will

The third Thursday of each month we open our meeting to the oldtimers and

they

are

they

have, or unless one feels he may have a message of special benefit for the

group. All

business discussion of any sort, clubs, parties or what have you, must be

left

until

never

We "charter members" are very proud of our group and its work, and

certainly

hope it

"old

W.B.A.
--------------------------------

Bridging the Age Gap

with the

largest

mind.

being

and

arresting of alcoholism in its earlier stages.

One of the most important myths that has been shattered is that young

people,

are still in their twenties and thirties cannot be suffering from this

disease.

The

proven

in a large number of cases symptoms of this disease showed quite early in

the

period

drink," "Becoming

anti-social" and having "Morning drinks" had become strongly

entrenched while

the

alcoholic was still a college student or in that age bracket. More, however,

to have difficulties such as "Solitary Drinking" and

"Benders" quite early in

their

other

Alcoholics Anonymous has taken a realistic look at the problem of alcoholism

in

relation to young people. In the last three or four years, groups whose

aim

New

City alone, the Young Peoples Group better known as the "Thirty-Five

and Under

Group"

to

100

the

and more established groups and encourages its members to attend the

meetings of

older-age groups, so as to foster a more rounded and stabilized type of

thinking

about alcoholism and the therapy of AA.

Every member of Alcoholics Anonymous learns, after attendance of the first

few

meetings, that the Twelfth Suggested Step is a most important one in the

prolonging

of his or her sobriety. It is not easy for a young person in his early

twenties

or

thirties to be of assistance to the sick alcoholic who has been drinking 20

30

years and many times leads to dangerous comparisons by the younger person.

much

'twelfth-stepping' a person of a comparative age level. Members of this age

group are

facing the many sided problems of living at relatively the same time and it

is

encouraging to know that other young people are hurdling similar

with

to

discuss problems such as Marriage, resumption of studies, the inherent

alcoholism, its prognosis in relation to certain family situations and other

factors

which might otherwise endanger sobriety. It is important because of the

of

mutuality and the lack of any taint of "Preaching,"

"Scholastic Pedanticism."

-- J.B., Brooklyn, N.Y.
--------------------------------
(c) Grapevine, June 1958

YOUTH GROUP DISBANDS

decided

Ten years ago when the group was formed, there was a definite need for a

Young

People's Group. Today, young people are well represented in most groups. We

that

most

its original members are active in other groups.

It is encouraging to know that young people can enjoy happy productive

sobriety

as these original members are experiencing.

Roy L., Winthrop, Mass.
--------------------------------
(c) Grapevine, September 1961

A Report on YOUTH GROUPS

Milwaukee

this year, and interviewed everybody present I could pin down. About 250

AAs,

members and guests attended the three-day meeting in Milwaukee.

AAs and Al-Anons of all ages from the Milwaukee-Chicago area mingled at the

meetings

Francisco,

California; from as far East as New York. Three Australian members, in their

thirties, sent their greetings and talks on tape.

How young are these AAs, really? Among forty AAs who participated as

speakers

the host planning committee the average age is thirty four -- ranging

from

twenty-two

nine

teens;

Speaker after speaker told of dozens of arrests in their teen years. One

girl

had an

aged

platform,

"I had my seventeenth conviction on my seventeenth birthday," no

one in the

audience

seemed particularly impressed.

Many had started drinking at twelve, thirteen and fourteen. One said,

"I was an

alcoholic at thirteen, on skid row at fifteen." Another declared,

"I know I was

an

alky at sixteen." One girl said, "I was on the streets at

then I

Commitment to mental hospitals in their early twenties seemed commonplace

among

these AAs. There were enough skid row alumni to form a group of their own.

could have been made up among the former reformatory students. Warden John

C.

Burke

the

introduced the

Warden, with a straight face, as "my former landlord." The prison

official told

one

of the sessions that probably eighty per cent of the young convicts in his

Several speakers told of lying about their ages to get into armed services:

"because

in uniform I would have no trouble buying drinks." There were frequent

stories

of

broken youthful marriages: "I thought it would settle me down."

-- they

puzzled upon first coming to AA to hear older members say, "You're too

young to

be an

more drinking.

You're not old enough for AA."

As one speaker put it: "I was leaving one of my first meetings when I

overheard

an

older member remark, 'I've spilled more booze on my vest than that young

has

good-humoredly, "but

it

was the alcohol I had drunk, not the liquor he had spilled, which made my

unmanageable."

A twenty-eight-year-old, in AA three years now, demonstrated the seriousness

of

his

that my

wife began to speak of it as my 'column.' Then they began not printing it,

because my

booze troubles just weren't news in our town any more."

He laughed when he recalled the "deep freeze" older members gave

him his first

year.

He recalled one older man who had said, "Never had the DTs? Sonny, go

another

The youngster said seriously: "Once the older fellows started laughing

when I

told

an

alcoholic at my age, I decided I must be a psycho. I kept seeing a

and

drunk, or

how

much, but what alcohol has done to your life that makes you eligible for

Often these young speakers told of being tolerated within groups of older

members,

but never being given any AA jobs to do. "Even now," said a fellow

in his early

thirties, sober over three years, "when I'm sitting in the clubhouse

and a

Twelfth

This lack of acceptance has also taken other forms. When a young people's

group

was

let

young people meet in one of its rooms, one young "founder"

reported. "But then,"

added the member with a youthful grin, "the clubhouse found it needed

money

badly, so

now." In

this

Such stories were told in private conversation, not in talks from the

platform.

And

about

treatment. In that one case, the stinging memory seems a goad that spurs

this

young

These experiences and reactions are by no means universal among younger AA

members

in all localities, but they had a direct effect on a number of those I

in

Milwaukee. Younger members began banding together in their own groups. In

places, naturally enough, young AA groups were started with high hopes and

flood-tide

energy, but little stable or wise leadership. Groups turned into social

clubs,

or

other Traditions were broken, and groups died. Thus, members of large,

young

encouragement and interest of older, wiser members, and most attend other AA

meetings, where they find "immediate identification with other young

alcoholics," as

one man put it.

"We find activity," said a thirty-eight-year-old who has been

sober : nine

years.

lots of

younger people, and when any of us goes to speak at another group, six or

eight

carloads of us go along."

guess we just rebel

more

at our age, even in AA groups. In the younger groups, though, there is no

to compare my drinking with that of the fellows who reminisce about bathtub

gin

or

speakeasies."

problems,"

one

fellow said. "As a young guy I have lots of domestic, professional and

personal

are

problems most older members are now facing. So we younger ones can face them

together

and help one another. That's in addition to helping each other stay sober,

which

must

(In many ways, this was truly more a "family" convention than

other regional AA

conventions I have attended. Many pretty, young, nonalcoholic wives, active

in

local

hostesses and

guides, and talked at both AA and their own meetings. One family present had

four

handsome

AA" banner

which

decorated the main AA meeting hall for the Milwaukee sessions.)

AA

at

self-criticism,

frank

and open self-inventory and wide varieties of opinion, were evident

A thirty-seven-year-old, sober six years, summed up the value of young

people's

groups this way: "We show younger alcoholics that they are not

different just

because

still

sober and happy in AA. Booze doesn't respect youth any more than it does

age."

The Milwaukee Conference helped prove those facts in a big way and must have

the message to many other young alcoholics, or their friends. Both of

Milwaukee's big

daily newspapers ran many stories about "Young People in AA."

Local ministers and hotel officials also helped, as did many older AA

members

Chicago-Milwaukee area. A Milwaukee clubhouse cooperated and so did the

secretary of

the Milwaukee Central Office. Both Illinois delegates to the Eleventh

General

Service

Of the thirty-nine AA speakers on the program, only three talked

specifically

about

their

stories, as AAs do everywhere, or addressed themselves to the three theme

words

of

the Conference: Gratitude, Obedience and Devotion.

in

AA

people?

each

A pamphlet distributed at the Milwaukee sessions is entitled "Facts,

Aims,

Purposes

declares:

"...there is a great need for at least one young people's group in

every city so

the

young coming into AA can get together once a week and discuss their problems

other young people of their own age."

Some young members, as we have seen, claim that such groups made it possible

for

groups.

of them insist, though, that it is necessary for any young AA to attend

other

meetings in addition to those for young people.

of

special groups. "We just want to encourage the acceptance of young

AA

groups. We do not favor any kind of AA segregation, by age or anything else.

do

not seek to divide AA, or set up any separate organization. We just want to

an

extra bond of fellowship to the cement of AA."

Milwaukee

Convention -- say they have found no need for special young people's

groups.

"I

used to

dressed

sloppy blue jeans and a filthy sweat shirt with university letters on it, so

people

would think I was a college kid! AA is not for kids; it forces us to mature

I

didn't want to grow up. So I slipped around for two years before I really

sober.

Her husband was in trouble because of drinking at fifteen, swore off at

eighteen

because of "a car-theft charge." Shaking his head wonderingly, he

says, "I

thought I

was too young to be an alcoholic!" He sobered up in a group full of

older

His buddy's first drinks were morning ones. "I reached under the bed

for the

jug

years old." Ten

years later he came to AA and "slipped around at first. I didn't see

any room in

this

outfit for a young man to 'get ahead' -- that is, get to be group

laughs

method

delegates to

the

Eleventh General Service Conference in New York.

utilized in

contributions to AA as a whole? Maybe so.

None of the young members on the program in Milwaukee spoke of service to AA

as

General Service Representatives, local Committeemen, or G.S. Conference

(However, the Milwaukee Central Office Secretary says local youngsters are

avid

GSO

them.

loners;

with

those

There was at the Milwaukee gathering, though, an unusually intense awareness

of

AA

Traditions and the need for Public Information activities by AA members.

reporters were especially well treated. Nonalcoholic guests included the

executive

director of the Chicago Alcoholic Treatment Center, a prison warden, and a

high

school principal. A rehabilitation counselor of Chicago's police department

also

On the value of special young people's groups, here is what one central

office

secretary from a large city said: "These young people's groups are the

AA in our area. They are actually open to members of all ages but the

service

jobs in

we

get

the

can count on most to take on Twelfth Step jobs, institutional work and

public

information tasks."

"We noticed in my

regular group that young people didn't stick with us, and we had a meeting

to

discuss

helped

conferences. You

see, it's great for us!"

The Milwaukee Conference had three such advisors ("We spoke only when

spoken

to,"

in

Chicago in 1959, when the youthful sponsors of the get-together found

with

Over objections and warnings by some of those present in Milwaukee, a

permanent

"Advisory Council" was formed there to help perpetuate the youth

conference idea

and

Two officers from each of the first four conferences make up the Advisory

Council.

They hope to establish a permanent fund to insure the financial solvency of

future

conferences (incidentally, all who went to Milwaukee, even the speakers,

their

set

permanent address for the exchange of information about young people in AA.

"We're

not a movement, or a breaking away from AA," one conference leader kept

"Our primary purpose is to help carry the message to younger

people."

Perhaps these young people have a genuine, valid need for a new AA service

arm,

in

line with our Ninth Tradition: "... we may create service boards or

directly responsible to those they serve." Perhaps not.

The member I know who has been sober longest seems quite unperturbed by such

new

we have

self-corrective factor in AA. These special groups either function in the

framework

of AA, or they fold up. don't know what we have to be afraid of, as long as

we

put

encourage

them,

to help them communicate with alcoholics they can reach and we can't. They

need

I felt quite at home among these younger members. I was impressed by the

quality of

their sobriety, their dedication to AA principles and work, their

determination

generally to add to AA, never to detract from it or divide it. They taught

me a

lot,

One thing is certain: young people, thank God, are coming to AA in

increasing

numbers. They hold the promise and the power of our future leadership, and

the

older

B.L., New York City

Longbeach Convention?

From: Steve Leeds . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 12:04:00 PM
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Hey All,
I have a cassette tape that is marked Sister Ignatia and Bill Wilson -

Longbeach Convention. The recording is old and it's obviously Bill but

I am looking for confermation that the womens voice is that of Sister

Ignatia. Could anyone confirm that she did speak with Bill at that

convention?
Thanks,

Steven
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 7:39:00 AM

think, trustee George G. told me that Bill D's story was not in the

first edition because he wanted to be paid for it.
At best third-hand hearsay to you, but . . . .
ernie k.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
++++Message 3166. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: God as we understand Him

From: Archie Bunkers . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 4:45:00 PM

make myself clear enough. I realize that "God as we understand

Him" is a

paraphrase of what James was saying. The Akron AA's knew this too. Could

this early referrence to James be an indication that whoever originated the

Big Book phrase "God as we understand Him" (either Bill W. or

Jimmy B. or

whoever) been paraphasing William James?? My point is, that if this is

true, the Big Book would be that original printed source of the phrase

"God

From: "Archie Bunkers"

To:

Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:38 PM

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] God as we understand Him
> This is an excerpt from http://hindsfoot.org/AkrSpir.pdf

>

> "William James, stripped of verbiage, says that

>

> Is William James the source of the Big Book

>

> Archie B.

> ________________________________

>

> From the moderator (Glenn C., South Bend, Indiana)

> The passage which Archie quotes is from one

> of the four pamphlets we possess which

> were written by the early AA people in Akron.

> They are "A Manual for Alcoholics Anonymous,"

> "Second Reader for Alcoholics Anonymous,"

> "A Guide to the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics

> Anonymous," and this one, which is entitled

> "Spiritual Milestones in Alcoholics Anonymous.

>

> In the passage in question, which says "William

> believe in God AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM,"

> it seems to me that the early AA's in Akron

> believed, not that William James wrote that line,

> but instead were agreeing that adding "as we

> understand Him" to the references to God in the

> twelve steps was in agreement with James' belief

> that people of different personality types needed

> different types of spirituality and different kinds

> of conceptions of God.

>

> "God as we understand Him" was not a quote

> pamphlet. The pamphlet says that "God as we

> understand Him" was a shorter way of saying what

> James was saying in the long quotation which they

> give from him, where James says "Religion shall

> mean for us the feelings, acts and experiences of

> individual men in their solitude, so far as they

> apprehend themselves to stand in relation to

> whatever they may consider the divine."

>

> The early Akron AA people were clearly saying

> teaching of the epistle of James, skeptics and

> freethinkers like Immanuel Kant, Catholics who

> followed the teachings of St. Augustine the great

> Doctor of the Church, Jews, Muslims, and

> Buddhists, could all join together in following the

> twelve steps and could understand why following

> these spiritual guides to action could lead us to

> the higher spiritual life.

>

> Here is that particular section of the pamphlet,

> section, so the group can read in context what

> the early Akron AA people believed:

> _____________________________________

>

> "Spiritual Milestones in Alcoholics Anonymous"

> Part IV

>

> BUT IF OUR CONCEPT of God is on the

> guidance on the subject of religion and spirituality.

> It is not awesome, abstract and complex, even

> though it seems so at first.

>

> Let's examine what some of the fine minds of

> have to say about religion. Note that none of them,

> with the exception of St. James, is a professional

> religionist.

>

> "Religion is the worship of higher powers from a

>

> "Religion shall mean for us the feelings, acts and

> far as they apprehend themselves to stand in

> relation to whatever they may consider the divine."

> -- William James.

>

> "Religion is the recognition of all our duties as

>

> "Religion is that part of human experience in

> of psychic nature, usually personal powers, and

> makes use of them."--James Henry Leuba.

>

> "Pure religion and undefiled before our God and

> in their affliction and to keep oneself unspotted

> from the world."--The General Epistle of James,

> 1:27.

> One cannot but be impressed with the similarity

> of these definitions to our own Twelve Steps.

>

> The Menzies definition is nothing more than a

> we admit we are beaten, come to believe a Power

> greater than ourselves can restore us, and turn our

> wills and lives over to that Power.

>

> William James, stripped of verbiage, says that we

>

> Immanuel Kant also tells us to turn our wills and lives

> wherein we are admonished to give our lives a

> thorough housecleaning. For such confessions and

> restitutions are without question divine commands.

>

> James Henry Leuba hints at the Twelfth Step,

>

> And all we need to do in the St. James passage is

> and Widows" and we have Step Twelve. As a

> matter of fact, before we gave up alcohol we

> were very definitely fatherless and widows.

>

> The spiritual life is by no means a Christian monopoly.

> that does not teach to a great extent the principles

> of Love, Charity and Good Will.

>

> The Jehovah of the Hebrews is a stern God who

> great Hebrew prophets taught a message of social

> justice. Incidentally, the modern Jewish family is one

> of our finest examples of helping one another. When

> a member of the family gets into trouble of any

> kind, the relatives, from parents to cousins, rally

> around with advice, admonition, and even financial

> assistance. This, incidentally, may be one reason

> there are not more Jewish members of AA. The

> family, in many cases, can handle the alcoholic

> problem.

>

> Followers of Mohammed are taught to help the

> and conduct themselves with personal dignity.

>

> Consider the eight-part program laid down in

> action, right living, right effort, right mind- edness

> and right contemplation. The Buddhist philosophy,

> as exemplified by these eight points, could be

> literally adopted by AA as a substitute for or

> addition to the Twelve Steps. Generosity, universal

> love and welfare of others rather than

> considerations of self are basic to Buddhism.

>

> The ultimate aim of all men is peace of spirit.

> and serenity.

>

> St. Augustine says, "Peace is the tranquility of order."

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/13/2006 4:46:00 PM

examine more of the pamphlet "Spiritual Milestones in Alcoholics

Anonymous." The pamphlet is far more historically endearing than it is

factually enlightening.

William James, Immanuel Kant, James Henry Leuba and "The General

Epistle of James" 1:27 (also called "The Book of James" in

other

psychologists, educators-have to say about religion. Note that none of

them, with the exception of St James, is a professional religionist."
Ouch!
James is the brother of Jesus. He was a martyr for his faith and is

the source of the maxim "faith without works is dead" (James

2:17). I

had to wince at describing him as a "professional religionist."

But

this is the difficulty that occurs when a member's (or group of

more than the substance of opinion.

Varieties of Religious Experience:"

individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves

to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine."
The pamphlet then creatively interprets the citation as "William

James, stripped of verbiage, states that we should believe in God AS

WE UNDERSTAND HIM."
Well William James has been stripped of verbiage. He didn't quite

state what is being attributed to him. An accurate and contextually

complete citation would read:
"Religion, therefore, as I now ask you arbitrarily to take it, shall

mean for us THE FEELINGS, ACTS, AND EXPERIENCES OF INDIVIDUAL MEN IN

THEIR SOLITUDE, SO FAR AS THEY APPREHEND THEMSELVES TO STAND IN

RELATION TO WHATEVER THEY MAY CONSIDER THE DIVINE. Since the relation

may be either moral, physical, or ritual, it is evident that out of

religion in the sense in which we take it, theologies, philosophies,

and ecclesiastical organizations may secondarily grow. In these

lectures, however, as I have already said, the immediate personal

experiences will amply fill our time, and we shall hardly consider

theology or ecclesiasticism at all."

the same niche as the description of St James being a "professional

religionist." It's probably well intended but not at all well stated.

It's much more poetic license rather than a concise summation of

James' magnificent book.
William James didn't write about a variety of understandings. He wrote

about a variety of experiences and conversions (some occurring

suddenly and some occurring gradually). His book certainly allowed the

notion of individual understandings of God among the varieties of

religious experiences but I wouldn't focus on William James as the

primary source of the notion.

reinforce a notion already planted beforehand by Ebby T and the Oxford

Group. Bill W was given the book "Varieties ..." during his last

stay

described in the Big Book (which is sometimes underappreciated for the

rich history it contains). In Chapter 1, Bill W recounts a poignant

and profound revelation for which Ebby T deserves credit along with

the Oxford Group:
[Big Book pg 12]
"Despite the living example of my friend there remained in me the

vestiges of my old prejudice. The word God still aroused a certain

antipathy. When the thought was expressed that there might be a God

personal to me this feeling was intensified. I didn't like the idea. I

could go for such conceptions as Creative Intelligence, Universal Mind

or Spirit of Nature but I resisted the thought of a Czar of the

Heavens, however loving His sway might be. I have since talked with

scores of men who felt the same way.

you choose your own conception of God?"

whose shadow I had lived and shivered many years. I stood in the

sunlight at last.
It was only a matter of being willing to believe in a Power greater

than myself. Nothing more was required of me to make my beginning. I

saw that growth could start from that point. Upon a foundation of

complete willingness I might build what I saw in my friend. Would I

have it? Of course I would!
Thus was I convinced that God is concerned with us humans when we want

Him enough. At long last I saw, I felt, I believed. Scales of pride

and prejudice fell from my eyes. A new world came into view."
This goes on to be repeated and reinforced throughout the remaining

chapters of the Big Book. Choosing one's own conception of God also

has the brilliance that the individual cannot blame anyone else for

the understanding and that they are responsible for it - good or bad.

(along with "Power greater than ourselves") both Jim B and Hank P

are

credited with being the primary influence ("AA Comes of Age" pgs

Group's principles and practices (and Sam Shoemaker) carried much

influence - probably more than William James even though he is

mentioned twice in the Big Book.

Thinking" and "Sermon on the Mount" and a number of other

authors and

books cannot be excluded either for their influence in both NY and

Akron. Dick B, in his writings about the Rev Sam Shoemaker, offers

quite a number of enlightening citations from Shoemaker's writings -

among them:
"Security lies in a faith in God which includes an experiment. It lies

in believing that God is" (Shoemaker, National Awakening, pp. 40-41).

having something definite to say about our lives. To believe in the

fact of the will of God is only to believe in God in the concrete"

(Shoemaker, Religion That Works, p. 55).

first the hindrance of self-will" (Shoemaker, Children of the Second

Birth, p. 47).
What I'm driving at is I don't see how the notion of "God as you

understand Him" can be attributed to a single primary source. It has

far too much of an ecumenical nature for conversion and redemption.
The idea certainly has served AA well - except when degraded to the

level of "door knob" and other things of that ilk. (Rule #62).

Arthur
-----Original Message-----

From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Archie Bunkers

Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:38 PM

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] God as we understand Him
This is an excerpt from http://hindsfoot.org/AkrSpir.pdf
"William James, stripped of verbiage, says that

we should believe in God AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM."

phrase "God as we understand him"??

of the four pamphlets we possess which

were written by the early AA people in Akron.

They are "A Manual for Alcoholics Anonymous,"

"Second Reader for Alcoholics Anonymous,"

"A Guide to the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics

Anonymous," and this one, which is entitled

"Spiritual Milestones in Alcoholics Anonymous.

James, stripped of verbiage, says that we should

believe in God AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM,"

it seems to me that the early AA's in Akron

believed, not that William James wrote that line,

but instead were agreeing that adding "as we

understand Him" to the references to God in the

twelve steps was in agreement with James' belief

that people of different personality types needed

different types of spirituality and different kinds

of conceptions of God.
"God as we understand Him" was not a quote

from James however, as they give it in this

pamphlet. The pamphlet says that "God as we

understand Him" was a shorter way of saying what

James was saying in the long quotation which they

give from him, where James says "Religion shall

mean for us the feelings, acts and experiences of

individual men in their solitude, so far as they

apprehend themselves to stand in relation to

whatever they may consider the divine."

in that pamphlet that Christians who followed the

teaching of the epistle of James, skeptics and

freethinkers like Immanuel Kant, Catholics who

followed the teachings of St. Augustine the great

Doctor of the Church, Jews, Muslims, and

Buddhists, could all join together in following the

twelve steps and could understand why following

these spiritual guides to action could lead us to

the higher spiritual life.

which is Part IV, giving the entire text of that

section, so the group can read in context what

the early Akron AA people believed:

_____________________________________
"Spiritual Milestones in Alcoholics Anonymous"