Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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Principles From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/29/2006 4:42:00 PM
1950. He
tells me they originally came out in 1948 but that no proof is obtainable from
New York. Does anyone know about this? The statement of principles of 1948 is in Appendix G in Mitch K's book "How it
Worked." Does anyone know why these were replaced by the 1950 statement of principles. Do they give General Service more power?
say
the trustees suppressed the statement of 1948? t/y Shakey Mike G. Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3117. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: The Dr. Howard/Hank P. manuscript From: mertonmm3 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/29/2006 5:00:00 AM
Hank P. and Dr. Howard. It does not appear to be anything like a draft that a publisher could work from and if you look closely at the 4 pages from the Sotheby's Catelog I think you will agree. Its quite obviously an intermediate sort of draft as it doesn't remotely agree with the finished product. Also as stated previously there are two handwritten references to Dr. Howard and most of the handwriting is Hank P.'s in my opinion. I disagee with the Sotheby assertion that this is the final copy that went to Cornwall Press. This document is far more significant historically. I am quite cautious with such an assertion as their experts are quite meticulous.
secondhand reporters tell us. All the best!! -merton ---------------------------------------------------------- --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "ricktompkins" > > The "Printer's draft" manuscript of the Big Book was sold in June 2004 for 1.56 million dollars, through a telephone bid from California to the auction site in NYC. Bill P. of Hazelden Press verified its authenticity at the time, after his report of viewing the entire manuscript on what we know as our 'first 164 pages.' From what I have learned, this one manuscript was brought to Cornwall Press in the Nyack, New York area of the Hudson River valley in February 1939---the linotype operators made the galleys of Alcoholics Anonymous from this draft. > $1.56 million is a great deal of private money, but I wonder if the artifact will ever be shown to the general AA public. Such a shame! even the AA Archives at GSO stayed away from the auction fracas, with AAWS having no opinion on this outside issue: the fiscal speculation of AA archival items. > The manuscript was the property of Barry L., confidant of Lois and the writer of AAWS' Living Sober in 1973. Lois gave it to him the mid-1970s and Barry's grand-nephew put it up on the auction block last year
> Honestly, I was saddened that the nephew never considered contributing it to the AA Archives at GSO, even with its potential tax write-off. > In serenity, > Rick, Illinois >
++++Message 3118. . . . . . . . . . . . Alcoholics Anonymous C.O.A. - Harper Bros. information needed From: mr.grassroots . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/28/2006 10:13:00 PM
the volume "Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age" some time ago but seem to have a problem connecting/receiveing feedback. (Probably my doing since I am not completely familiar with this board yet.) In general I was wondering as to how many copies Harpers did of this work? different printings? Total number printed? Thank You in advance for your patience and will keep checking back in. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3119. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Printer''s Copy and Dr. Howard From: mertonmm3 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/29/2006 5:29:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The name Curry is extremely interesting as it was one of names mentioned by Bill and Hank during their 2 week stock redemption debate, as a creditor of Henry G. Parkhurst, Inc. (unincorporated in reality)(the name Honor Dealers was not used in this discussion, Hank' contention was that he was principally liable as the company bore his namesake so he owned the furniture. Bill pointed out that as treasurer , an officer, he was equally liable). One of the other creditors was Sinclair Oil. As I stated originally after reviewing the 4 pages from the Sotheby's catelog its my very stong opinion that this wasn't a "publisher's draft" but rather an intermittent draft and is mostly in Hank P's and very likely the mysterious Dr. Howard's hand. The one page in Bill's hand was written many years after publication. Hopefully more people can view the photo fascimiles from the catelog to understand my point. If there's anyone living in the Essex or Morris County area's please check the various city directories for Dr. Marcus A. Curry. Thank you jlobdell for this possible lead into identifying the elusive Dr. Howard. Greystone Park yielded several very early members including Morgan R., from Glen Ridge, who spoke on the radio about AA.
Sheep manuscript) All the Best!!! -merton
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "jlobdell54" wrote:
> > Given that AA cannot accept gifts from non-members and only gifts of > either $1000 or $2000 (I'm not sure which) from members in any given > year, it's not clear to me how the Printer's Copy could have been > given to AA. Correct me if I am wrong. So far as I know, the Archives > are not separately incorporated and must therefore fall under the AAWS > restriction, I believe. On the name of the "Chief Psychiatrist of NJ"
> I suggest Marcus A. Curry, Chief at the NJ State Asylum for the Insane > at Greystone Park during the years 1936-40 (from the Greystone Park > Annual Reports 1936-40 in the NJ State Archives). -- Jared Lobdell >
++++Message 3120. . . . . . . . . . . . Sauerkraut remedy From: Rich Foss . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/28/2006 12:13:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII An "old timer" in our fellowship is fond of using the Sauerkraut Juice
treatment when he finds a wet one. It may have something to do with replacing electrolytes or something. He says it is mentioned in our literature. But we cannot find it. Perhaps AA Comes of Age or Dr. Bob and the Old Timers? The force of his personality and his approach to AA's simple program of recovery have helped a great number of people find a way out. Just curious about the Sauerkraut. Thanks. Rich
++++Message 3121. . . . . . . . . . . . Change of terms From: David Jones . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/30/2006 10:38:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi. Does any one know why the term ex-alcoholic was replaced with ex-problem drinker in the big book. God bless Dave IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3122. . . . . . . . . . . . Ray O''K died Jan. 28th From: John Pine . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/27/2006 11:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII FYI, an eloquent and influential member of the fellowship, Ray O'K., died in Florida earlier this week and will be buried in Larchmont, NY on Saturday, 1/28. Here is a link to a newspaper obituary. http://www.nyjnews.com/obituary/obit.php3?id=1912213 John P. Richmond, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3123. . . . . . . . . . . . Enneagram and 4th Step in 12x12 From: Soberholic . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/28/2006 1:51:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Has anybody has ever brought up a question about the connection between the theory of the enneagram and the 4th Step in 12x12? Does anyone know if Bill W. was aware of the early enneagram movement? In the theory of the enneagram, in the instinctual subtypes, each type also has
three main instinctual subtypes - the Self-Preservation, Sexual and Social subtypes. In the area of ego-fixations and the deadly sins, the Enneagram types have also
been correlated with the traditional Seven Deadly Sins plus two additional descriptors - 'deceit' and 'fear'. The '7 sins + 2' need to be understood in a much more specific meaning than usual." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3124. . . . . . . . . . . . National Archives Workshop From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/2/2006 1:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Because of the hurricane which struck New Orleans just before the National Archives Workshop was to take place, it has had to be rescheduled and relocated to another part of Louisiana. We have had to miss a year, to allow these new accommodations to be obtained, but everything is now set up to hold the workshop in Baton Rouge. 10th Annual National Archives Workshop September 14-17, 2006 Baton Rouge, Louisiana
9940 Airline HiWay Baton Rouge, Louisiana. 70816 (255) 924-7021 Fax: (225) 924-9816 Mention N.A.W. (by August 31, 2006) for $79.00 room rate.
jhardingnola@cox.net (jhardingnola at cox.net) Bobby B. phone 337-662-3402 or email danieb@att.net (danieb at att.net) __________________________________ Sent to us by: "Area64archives.org" daggerrose@area64tnarchives.org (daggerrose at area64tnarchives.org) http://area64tnarchives.org/1stquarter2006/index.html
Harper Bros. information needed From: j_oys5672 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/1/2006 5:04:00 PM
wrote:
> > I posted a request for information on the Harper Brothers printings of > the volume "Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age" some time ago but seem
> to have a problem connecting/receiveing feedback. (Probably my doing > since I am not completely familiar with this board yet.) > > In general I was wondering as to how many copies Harpers did of this > work? different printings? Total number printed? > > Thank You in advance for your patience and will keep checking back in. > Good Afternoon Mr. Grassroots I would suggest contacting the Archives desk at the General Service Office in New York. They should be able to provide you with the information that you are seeking. I believe it should also be available in the 1957 Final Conference Report. Thelr Ph. # is (212)-870-8700 , website www.aa.org In Service Jerry IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3126. . . . . . . . . . . . Accident From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/1/2006 4:58:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Friends (and a few others), On Saturday, Jan. 28th, I suffered a serious accident that, though non-fatal, will substantially lay me up for some time. Please do not write of your sympapthy and concern, in which I trust. I came home from the hospital to over 700 messages. I will reply according to my ability and larger priorities.
A History of Alcoholics Anonymous" and "The Spirituality of Imperfection: Storytelling and the Search for Meaning."
in the field of AA history. A good history of the AA movement in the 20th century will have to include a section on his major ideas and contributions. The title of his major book reminds us that we must first recognize that we ourselves are NOT God before we will turn to the higher power of the twelve step program (who is the REAL God) and ask for help. I do not have any information myself, beyond what appears in Ernie's letter. If I learn more, I will let you know. Glenn Chesnut IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3127. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Sauerkraut remedy From: Peggy Anna . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/31/2006 5:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have a book written in 1993 by Don Julio DeMedici Santaleone, entitled "The James Connection or Sauerkraut, Tomatoes, and Karo Syrup" The author has been a member of AA for over 20 years now and lives in Rochester, New York. In his introduction he states "as related in Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers (p 74) a detoxification treatment of a combination of tomatoes, sauerkraut and Karo corn syrup was administered by Bill W. to Dr. Bob in order to supply Bob with vitamins and energy so that Bob could perform surgery".
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Foss" To: Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Sauerkraut remedy > > An "old timer" in our fellowship is fond of using the Sauerkraut Juice > treatment when he finds a wet one. It may have something to do with > replacing electrolytes or something. He says it is mentioned in our > literature. But we cannot find it. Perhaps AA Comes of Age or Dr. Bob > and > the Old Timers? The force of his personality and his approach to AA's > simple program of recovery have helped a great number of people find a way
> out. Just curious about the Sauerkraut. > Thanks. > Rich >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3128. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Enneagram and 4th Step in 12x12 From: James Bliss . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/31/2006 5:31:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From a quick research on the Eneagram, the theory was not formulated until 1960 (the nine types), which means that it had no association with the development of the 4th step. Please see: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/history.asp It describes the various people in the wikipedia discussion and what their theories were. Jim IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3129. . . . . . . . . . . . Significant February dates in A.A. History
From: chesbayman56 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/1/2006 10:23:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Feb 1908 - Bill made boomerang. Feb 1916 - hazing incident Norwich University, Bill and sophomore class suspended Feb 1938 - Rockefeller gives $5,000 to AA. - Saves AA from professionalization. Feb 1939 - Dr Harry Tiebout, 1st Psychiatrist to endorse AA and use in his practice. Feb 1939 - Dr Howard of Montclair, NJ suggests swapping "you musts" for "we ought" in the Big Book. Feb 1940 - 1st AA clubhouse opens at 334-1/2 West 24th Street, NYC. Feb 1951 - Fortune magazine article about AA. New York reprints in pamphlet form for many years. Feb 1963 - Harpers carries article critical of AA. Feb 1981 - 1st issue of "Markings" AA Archives Newsletter is published. Feb 1 or 2, 1942 - Ruth Hock, AA's 1st paid secretary, resigns to get married.
Feb 8, 1940 - Rockefeller dinner. Feb 8, 1940 - Houston Press ran first of 6 anonymous articles on AA by Larry J. Feb 9, 2002 - Sue Smith Windows, Dr Bob's daughter died. Feb 11, 1937 - First New Jersey meeting was held at the home of Hank P ("The Unbeliever" in the first edition). Some sources report this as happening Feb 13, 1937 Feb 11, 1938 - Clarence S. ("Home Brewmeister" 1st-3rd edition) sobriety date. Feb 14, 1971 - AA groups worldwide hold memorial service for Bill W. Feb 14, 2000 - William Y., "California Bill" dies in Winston Salem, NC.
Feb 15, 1918 - Sue Smith Windows, Dr. Bob's adopted daughter, was born.
Feb 15, 1941 - Baltimore Sunday Sun reported that the city's first AA group, begun in June 1940, had grown from 3 to 40 members. Feb 17, - Jim B contacted Charlie B, whom he had met once, some two years before, at a New York AA meeting. Feb 18, 1943 - During gas rationing in WWII, AA's are granted the right to use cars for 12th step work in emergency cases. Feb 19, 1967 - Father "John Doe" (Ralph P), 1st Catholic Priest in AA dies. Feb 20, 1941 - The Toledo Blade published first of three articles on AA by Seymour Rothman. Feb 23, 1959 - AA granted "Recording for the Blind" permission to tape the Big Book. Feb 28, 1940 - First organization meeting of Philadelphia AA was held at McCready Huston's room at 2209 Delancy Street. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3130. . . . . . . . . . . . Trust God, Clean House, Help Others From: ny-aa@att.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/31/2006 5:09:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII It was interesting that we are discussing the prescription to "Trust God, Clean House, Help Others" at the time the phrase appears in the obituary of Ray OK. It is a clever way to speak of his A.A. membership without actually mentioning Alcoholics Anonymous:
and Help Others", Mr. [O'K] was active in many organizations and fellowships. He was well known for his work with the New York State Bar Association, where he was Chairman of the Committee on Lawyer Alcoholism. He also worked tirelessly on issues relating to alcoholism in the legal profession with the ABA and ILAA. ... http://www.nyjnews.com/obituary/obit.php3?id=1912213 -----
++++Message 3131. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill W and Dr. Bob From: Jim S. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/1/2006 2:30:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have asked these questions several times in my F2F meetings and sponsor, I have even checked the internet. How did Dr. Bob wind up in the back of the BB with the stories instead of in the main section (164 pgs)? I usually relate the important stuff to the first 181 pages. Really don't understand why Dr. Bob isn't given more credit, except that Bill was a salesman and Dr. Bob wasn't. Thank you for being here, Jim S/Pensacola, FL IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3132. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: First woman was Jane S., not Florence
From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/4/2006 5:54:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Diz As the eloquent John Wayne would have said "hold on there pilgrim." The first woman to arrive on the scene in AA (in 1935) was the legendary "Lil" of the "Victor and Lil" duo in Akron, OH (re "Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers pgs 97-98, 109, 241). "Lil" reputedly sobered up outside AA. However, it is said she never got far enough along to attend a meeting. I'm not sure if the dry dates of Florence R or Jane S can be stated with certainty or precision. Take for example Dr Bob's stated dry date (June 10, 1935)and the starting date of the AMA convention in Atlantic City, when he had his last binge for a few days (also June 10, 1935). "Dr Bob and the Good Oldtimers" provides Jane S' relative dry date through old-timer Bob E. On pg 101 it states "Bob E who came into AA in February 1937" (then on pg 122) "remembered that Jane S was making
the 35-mile trip to the meeting at T Henry's in 1937, about the same time he started" [Jane's trip was from Cleveland to Akron]. Pg 241 Download 13.83 Mb. Share with your friends:
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