Aa history Lovers 2006 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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From: ArtSheehan . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/15/2006 10:33:00 PM
incorrect. The long form of the second Tradition never contained any mention of "Our leaders are but trusted servants - they do not govern." Also the initial version of the long form of Tradition 9 did not contain the term "they do not govern." The April 1946 Grapevine contained an article by Bill W titled "Twelve Suggested Points for AA Tradition" (re "Language of the Heart" pgs 20-24). The article provided AA with the initial version of the "long form" of the Traditions. A December 1947 pamphlet titled "AA Tradition" also contained the same wording. Both the short and long form of the Traditions have undergone changes from their original wording. Pinning down the dates when these changes occurred is no trivial matter (and a bit exasperating to find source reference details). The original long form of Tradition 9 contained the ending statement "All such representatives are to be guided in the spirit of service, for true leaders in AA are but trusted and experienced servants of the whole. They derive no real authority from their titles. Universal respect is the key to their usefulness." This was later changed to add "they do not govern" after " ... authority from their titles."
"short form" of the Traditions (re "Language of the Heart" article "A Suggestion for Thanksgiving" pgs 95-96). The November 1949 Grapevine issue was dedicated to the Traditions in preparation for the forthcoming Cleveland Convention in 1950. The wording of the second Tradition was expanded to include the sentence "Our leaders are but trusted servants - they do not govern." (Note: "AA Comes of Age" pg 213, states that the short form was drafted in "1947 or thereabouts"- it was more likely early 1949). What caused this addition to the short form of Tradition 2 (and later addition to the long form of Tradition 9)? I can only surmise. From 1946 on, after the first publication of the Traditions, there was friction (it grew to be rather intense) between Bill W and the Alcoholic Foundation Board Trustees regarding Bill's ideas for establishment of the General Service Conference (re "AA Comes of Age" pgs 208-214). Dr Bob was not very keen on the idea either. The appearance of the "Our leaders are but trusted servants ..." sentence
in the short form may well have been a product of the friction but I cannot confirm it with a direct source reference. Two wording changes were subsequently made to the November 1949 version of the short form of the Traditions: "primary spiritual aim" was changed to "primary purpose" in Tradition 6, and "principles above personalities" was changed to "principles before personalities" in Tradition 12. However, the November 1949 wording of the short form of the Traditions was adopted and adapted by Al-Anon Family Groups in September 1952 (re "Lois Remembers" pgs .177-178). The Traditions were approved at AA's 15th anniversary and 1st International Convention which took place at Cleveland, OH from July 28-30, 1950. Bill W chronicled the proceedings in a September 1950 Grapevine article titled "We Came of Age" (re "The Language of the Heart" pgs 117-124 also "AA Comes of Age" pg 213). The Traditions meeting was held in the Cleveland Music Hall. Bill W was asked to sum up the Traditions for the attendees. He did not recite either the long or short form. Instead, he paraphrased a variation of the long form. Following Bill's summation, the attendees adopted the 12 Traditions unanimously by standing vote. I cannot as yet determine the specific points in time when the wording changes to the short and long form of Traditions took place. I believe it occurred with the publication of the 12and12 in 1953 but I need access to a first printing 12and12 to confirm it. If anyone can tell me the if the wording of Traditions 6 and 12 in a first printing 12and12 is the same as they are today I'd be most grateful. If that's the case, then today's wording (short and long form) of the Traditions was Conference-approved in 1953 with the publication of the 12and12.
appeared in an appendix to the second edition Big Book printed in 1955. One oddity, previously mentioned in the AAHL forum, was that the 2nd edition Big Book Traditions appendix initially contained the wording of the short form as they were printed in the Grapevine in November 1949. There has been no subsequent posting as yet to AAHL saying in what printing the appendix was changed to reflect the short form version as worded today. One final bit of information - a number of members erroneously believe that Tradition 3 once contained the word "honest" and that it was removed from the Tradition by the Conference. It's not true. The word "honest" never appeared in either the long or short form of Tradition 3. The term comes from the Foreword to the first edition Big Book and was later included in the initial version of the AA Preamble in the June 1947 Grapevine. It was the AA Preamble that was changed by the Conference in 1958 to remove the word "honest." The way the Conference Advisory Action was framed can give the erroneous impression that Tradition 3 was changed. Cheers Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kimball Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:58 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Second Tradition (long and short)
same. Then it was decided that since the words "Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern" was redundant with the long form of tradition 9, that the phrase be dropped from the long form of tradition 2.
From: HJFree Subject: Second Tradition (long and short)
form?
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3068. . . . . . . . . . . . AA Corporations? From: Charlie Bishop Jr. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2006 5:30:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi all: help needed on below: //The following are all CORPORATIONS: Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.;
the General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous, Inc.; and the Alcoholics Anonymous Grapevine, Inc. They are service organizations and corporations whose purpose and existence is to serve the Fellowship. In effect, they are temporary, albeit long-lived, committees which could all be thrown away and Alcoholics Anonymous would still exist. Historically speaking, what group or body of AA members had the authority to form these three corporations? How would they have to be called together if they ever wished to vote on dismantling or discarding these corporations? Is provision made for dismantling and discarding any of these corporations in the Twelve Concepts, and who is given the power to take this action in the Twelve Concepts?/ Thanks, servus, Charlie B. "Charlie Bishop Jr." = comcast.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3069. . . . . . . . . . . . The only AA censure motion? From: Charlie Bishop Jr. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2006 5:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi all: more help needed: //In the Advisory Actions of the General Service Conference of A.A., 1951-2004 edition, p. 147, we read that in 1995 a recommendation that "the proposal to censure the General Service Board" was "dismissed. (Trustees)." the censure motion was signed by 10 GSC Delegates. What was the background for this censure
move? Was this censure motion a reaction to the change in the Charter on Article 2?// thanks all, servus, Charlie B. "Charlie Bishop Jr." = comcast.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3070. . . . . . . . . . . . AAWS legal attacks From: Charlie Bishop Jr. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2006 5:41:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII //From "Charlie Bishop Jr." at comcast.net) We went through a period a few years back when AAWS was going after anyone who
used the circle and triangle logo, and trying to sue them for trademark infringement. This was defeated in the courts. One of the reasons was that circle and triangle logos had been used for years by all sorts of organizations, including some prohibitionist organizations in the period before AA came along.
This has all been discussed in detail in past messages in the AAHistoryLovers. Recently I have had items (old books and pamphlets and memorabilia) which I had
put up for sale on eBay removed because of protests made to eBay by AAWS, simply
on the grounds that "AA" or "Alcoholics Anonymous" showed up somewhere on the item, as part of a book title or somewhere on the item. Has anyone else had items removed by eBay because of AAWS complaints? Please call or email me directly if you have had this happen to you:
comcast.net) phone 304.242.2937
issue
has developed in AA. Also, what information can the members of the group give me on cases where an internet website or AA chat room has been threatened or removed by AAWS? What is the history of this issue? Although the Big Book concordance issue seems to be dead now, and is no longer being fought over, some of the earlier attacks by AAWS were on concordances to the Big Book which were posted online, on the grounds apparently of supposed copyright infringement.
infringement involved in any of these attacks on websites and chat rooms? Again, if you would call or email me directly, this would help me in writing the
historical article I am working on. "Charlie Bishop Jr." comcast.net) phone 304.242.2937//
From: Charlie Bishop Jr. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2006 5:36:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi again...more help needed... //From "Charlie Bishop Jr." at comcast.net) A few years ago, a group called IWS published the Big Book in paperback for sale in the U.S. and Canada and elsewhere, so that for a while there were two different editions of the Big Book available in print in English, one published by IWS and the other published by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services. AAWS objected and in a settlement between AAWS and IWS, AAWS agreed to apologize to every AA group in the world for its harassment of IWS, Inc. That AAWS apology was published in Box 4-5-9 and in the 1995 Final Report of the General Service Conference. Could someone email me a copy of either the Box 4-5-9 or 1995 GSC Final Report apologies or both? Thanks. My email address is Also, is anyone aware of a Regional Forum that discussed "lawsuits" in A.A.?// Again thanks, servus, Charlie B. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3072. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Green Pond, NJ From: mertonmm3 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/18/2006 4:25:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi, Yes, From my transcriptions of Lois diary the reference to Horace C. was a reference to Horace Chystal or "Chrys" as Lois refered to him. After living with the Parkhursts for a short time immediately after leaving 182 Bill and Lois moved to the Greenpond bungalow. Although Lois' diary made reference to "leaving Greenpond for good" keep in mind that this was an unedited diary without the option of seeing into future events. This bungalow was used many times over the next several years by Bill and Lois, more than any other place. Lois did not know she'd be returning when she wrote this first diary entry. As of the early 1990's the bungalow was still there according to a resident who spent considerable time tracking it down. This is the most discussion I've seen to date regarding the Green Pond bungalow. I have enough of a visual retention of the 20 or so photos I once had to be able to identify it. Homes back then didn't all look the same and the number of older homes in Greenpond was supposedly not large.
-merton
> > The question about Green Pond, NJ, had to do with the place Bill W > and Lois lived after they were forced out of 182 Clinton Street > without even enough money to pay for a moving van. It started their > period of "living around." Late April or early May 1939, Horace C
> loaned them his summer cottage (also referred to as a bungalow). > It got too cold that fall and they moved on. > > "Pass it On" 215 ff > "Lois Remembers" 125 > > It is likely that Horace C is the Horace Crystal who was involved > early in the writing of the Big Book. It is unlikely that such a > cottage would have survived this long. Still, the person who asked > might be able to find property or tax or other records for a Horace > Crystal in Green Pond, New Jersey. >
From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2006 6:04:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I would like to know why the preface to the first edition to the BB makes a statement about 100 men and women, when there are only approximately 40 stories in the BB and by some accounts that I have read a maximum of 70 members in AA at the time the book was published. Sincerely, Jim F. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3074. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Henrietta Seiberling''s Children From: greatcir@comcast.net> . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2006 5:32:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII On my visit to the Gate House in Akron last June I recall a framed printing in the small library where Bill first met with Dr. Bob. I think it says Henrietta's two daughters were home at the time and recalled a tall thin man with big feet who reminded them of a movie star when Bill came to meet and talk to Dr. Bob. As I had heard Smitty (Dr. Bob's son) talk about being the last person alive who
was present when AA was formed, I asked the docent if the daughters were still
alive and she thought one was but she was not sure. The house is so small it's
had to imagine that Smitty and the girls did not play or talk with each other
while Bill and Bob had their infamous discussion thus it would seem Smitty knew
they were "present" too? Smitty and the two girls were probably close in age? Pete Kopcsak _______________________________ From the moderator: Is it possible that this is partly a dispute over definitions? Are we talking
about the first time that Bill W. and Dr. Bob ever met, or are we talking about
the long period which followed that initial meeting, during which Bill stayed
with Dr. Bob and Anne, and they talked for hours every day about how to use this
new spiritual method for working with alcoholics? The phrase "when AA was formed" could mean all sorts of things, depending on how you defined it and what perspective you were looking from: (1) the first time
Bill W. and Dr. Bob met, (2) the period when Bill W. and Dr. Bob spent weeks at Dr. Bob and Anne's house figuring out how they were going to put this program together, (3) Dr. Bob's last drink after which he stayed sober to the end of his life (celebrated at Founders Day), (4) the point when they brought Bill D. into the program (which showed that they could teach it to other alcoholics),(5) the time when AA split from the Oxford Group, (6) the date and place where the first meeting was held which was called an "Alcoholics Anonymous meeting" (where Clarence Snyder insisted that he was the one who did that in Cleveland), (7) the point when "Alcoholics Anonymous" was chosen as the title of the book they were writing, or (8) from an Akron perspective, the period when the early Akron AA people were dropping by Dr. Bob and Anne's house every day and using that as their center for regular fellowship (the period when a number of the famous founders of AA in various places in the upper midwest were getting sober there).
there at the time of Bill W. and Dr. Bob's first meeting, their memories of that evening would be extremely valuable to record. Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana, USA) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Barger" Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 4:25 PM Subject: Henrietta Seiberling's Children Hi All, As far as I know, all three of Henrietta's children are still living. One daughter was Dorothy, whom I met and interviewed in New York City. The other daughter lived near Philadelphia, but I can't recall her name. The son, former Congressman John Seiberling, lives in Akron and still takes an interest in AA. I did meet him and he told me he was in boarding school when Bill and Bob met. I don't know if the girls were home or not. I seem to recall that Dorothy attended one of the elite women's colleges (maybe Wellesley), but she would have
been too young for that in 1935. She now lives on the northern tip of Long Island.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 3075. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "Bill formally divorced AA in 1955"
From: mertonmm3 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/18/2006 4:51:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" wrote:
> It was a reference to the handing over of AA from the co-founders to the fellowship and the backdrop for the Convention and the term, "AA Comes of Age". I didn't mean to convey that he abandoned AA at any time. Perhaps "divorced" was too strong a term and therefore I stand
corrected. Instead, "he gave himself the space to approach the disease from angles which were precluded to AA by Tradition" would be a more accurate statement. (Step 10).
------------------------------------------------------------ > "... Bill formally divorced AA in 1955." > > This is erroneous information. Bill was involved in AA at many and > various levels until he died. He was writing for the AA Grapevine > until 1970. He died in January 1971. > > The following articles were written in December 1955 and December > 1970, respectively. > > _____________________________ > > The Finest Gift of All > Christmas, 1955 > Volume 12 Issue 7 > December 1955 > > EACH of us in AA has received the gift of sobriety. All of us have > found a new usefulness and most of us have found great happiness. This > adds up to the gift of life itself--a new life of wondrous possibility. > > What then are we going to do with this great gift of life? > > Because our experience has taught us, we are quite sure that we know. > We shall try to share with every fellow sufferer all that has been so > freely given us. We shall try to carry AA's message to those who need > and want it, wherever in the world they may be. We shall daily > re-dedicate ourselves to the God-given truth that "It is by > self-forgetting that one finds; it is by giving that one receives." > > For us of AA, this is the Spirit of Christmas. This is the finest gift > of all. > > Lois joins me in our warmest greetings. May the New Year of 1956 be > the greatest time of giving and of receiving that we in AA have ever > known.
> > Bill W. > > Copyright (c) The AA Grapevine, Inc. (December 1955). Reprinted with > permission. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Christmas Message > Volume 27 Issue 7 > December 1970 > > GRATITUDE is just about the finest attribute we can have, and how Download 13.83 Mb. Share with your friends:
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