Cruisers & Sailing Forums
Things that make you go "hmmmmmm"
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- Whats the problem...
- Peice of JunK
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What's the problem... ...with Pat'n Ali? They worked hard in a tough, brain frying, business (Commodities Trading), made a little money and decided to try something different. They're spending their own time and money, having some fun, learning more than their Log entries probably reveal and doing so while they are young enough to come home and start a new adventure when and if they choose. Their web-site was created for their friends and family but they allow or encourage others to look on as well. They've made some mistakes that others with more experience might not but then, one only gains experience by making mistakes! They look a life through a lens ground by the society in which they were raised. Where a Happy Kid's Meal or a Pizza on the way to the Mall passes for nutrition (fortunately there's more to life than food however). But, they're having fun and making friends. As for their Boat, it's a piece of junk which is not their fault. It's not suitable for its intended use. IF the manufacturer were worth a damn and was interested in building quality boats, they would have made good on the product. I've little doubt that they would have responded to the original owner in the same manner. (By comparison, I am the second owner of a 1986 Beneteau First 42 and I have been amazed by how responsive BeneteauUSA has been to my needs!) At the least, the people at 2Hulls should have made some effort to be helpful. My sincerest hope is that they manage to make it to and through the Red Sea without a run-in with Pirates. Thus far they have followed the golden rule (DO unto others...) and largely been treated well everywhere. I hope that continues to hold... s/v HyLyte
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no problem If you are responding to my post, HyLyte, I guess you missed my thrust, so to speak. I have no problem with Pat and Ali, some of the things Pat writes just make me say "hmmmmm". If you've ever done any cruising, especially a couple of years worth, you probably have learned to be pretty careful about taking things apart , especially potentially life saving things, in such a manner that crucial bits don't have a chance to go overboard. Or maybe not? Likewise, after several multi-day passages, many people would begin to figure out how to procure and store provisions for the next one, wouldn't they? Likewise, how many pieces of running rigging do you have that you don't know the function of, and if so, wouldn't you be curious enough to ask someone? Maybe the Wildcat people? Lastly, the bit about the SSB nets, and not even having the mic plugged in, boggles my mind a bit. Do they even know how to work the radio? If something, God forbid, did happen to them, could they communicate a distress message? Pat says they personally don't care to know all the information, weather and otherwise, available from the net, but there are many other reasons why cruisers participate, mostly safety related. Oh well? Anyway, none of this stuff makes me want to diss them personally, it's just somewhat unusual, and I repeat, makes me go "hmmmmm" once in awhile. I really do wish them the best, and appreciate them for being a shining example of the old adage "whatever". ;) Best,
¡And I'll drink to that! :cheers: |
Peice of JunK? Maybe it's more accurate to say 'used to be a piece of junk. After all the $$$ they've spent on it, I wouldn't mind having it. There hasn't been any breakdowns for some time. The dinghy is a worry though! |
Unfortunately... their boat is a piece of junk. And, having inspected another, "new", boat by the same manufacturer, it appears that junk is all the company produces. After 40 years of sailing I've found that one can tell the quality of a build by whats done in the spaces that one cannot readily see. Regardless of repairs, if the load on a sheet winch is enough to rip the winch out of the deck, that's not a boat I want near-shore, to say naught of off-shore. I too sometimes shake my head at Pat's foibles but what the heck. Fortunately, the good lord seems to look out for the innocent. Let us hope that continues. Cheers, s/v HyLyte :) |
I love reading the Bumfuzzles logs. They are having the adventure of a lifetime. So what, they like pizza/beer at every port? Would you not do the same? They usually travel around each and every stop by haggling over taxi's or rental cars, hotel rooms, etc. doing the siteseeing thing that tourists do everywhere. I hope they make their experience into a movie or at least a book... I think there is a lot more to these two than what seems to be explained in their logs. Just my 2cents worth. Alan :) |
Unfortunately... Well in that case, it's good to see they're finally getting a break from major repairs. We'll see how long it lasts. :cool: |
movie I'm with you on all that Stardate2010. But if they do put out a movie, I wouldn't dare insult them by buying an original. It would definitely be a pirated copy. :D |
wildcats why do people knock all the wildcats? I have stated previously and will state again not all of them are rubbish. It's a little bit of a long bow comparing a Beneteau with a wildcat - a giant of a company compared with a mino. I could of course tell you many many stories of poor Beneteau service that I know of here in NZ, but the agent would not have a chance to reply. Some of the wild cats and their are a few here in NZ are not too bad and if you look around you can get a real bargain and a little time and energy will see you with a very good cat. Very few people seem to know the full story about who designed the cat in the first place and what it was desgined to do. To my knowledge it was desgined by Jeff Schionning from Schionning designs in Australia for the charter market. What people do with them after that is of course up to the owner but if you compare the many other smaller 'charter' cats that are pushed into round the world sailing out their the Wildcat is not too bad in my opinion. On another note I note someone knocking P&A's use of the SSB. Well I have to agree with the bums on this one. We do get sick of all the yack yack on the radio and after all most of us are looking for a break from all that when we go cruising. I use my SSB to down load weather faxes and email and listen in to the very odd weather forecast and that's it. I don't think we can trash them on that part. I understand P&A employ a weather router anyhow for offshore passages. Cheers
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Nobody trashs the widcat due to the design. Its the build quality and the total lack of interest in putting problems right - or havent you read any of the bum's story!
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Arrrrh, Do you think we just turned full circle folks??? This is where it all started and I am happy it is back to here. So I have a question. Is it fair to ask a builder to still warranty a boat after it has been on sold?? and to add, Without knowing the the history. What if the damage was infact Lightening strike. It is feasible. I see the "fault" as being with the surveyor. But then, we don't know what the surveyor was employed to look at. The second at fault would have to be the original owner. I don't believe he told the whole compleate story. My question relating to him, is why did he sell it so soon. It opens up a lot of area's for speculation, but that is all it is without knowing the ex's side of the story. |
I think it is not fair to expect the builder to warranty the boat. But if the business' reputation that was being affected they should at least try to investigate the cause of the delamination and if there was a fair chance that it occured even partly due to manufacture, offer to at least contribute to the repairs, then advertise the fact and state what steps have been taken to rectify the manufacturing process. Then write the contribution off to the 'good will' account. If the investigation cleared the business, I'd publish it in its entirety on the business' website and link it to this blog and anywhere else I could. The approach to the problem so far by the builder has been to aggressively deny having any part in the cause and then stick their head in the bilge. Whether or not it is their fault or responsibility is not the point. They need to take an approach that will limit the damage to their goodwill. But perhaps the builder was considering all this until they got the copy of the invoice they asked Pat for. Then on seeing the total, maybe they decided their goodwill wasn't worth that much. |
If I remember correctly, when they were having it repaired in NZ, they found that there had been a layer of fibreglass applied over top of anti-fouling paint. I think there was some damage done at some point in the life of the boat, but anyone's guess when/where. You would think that with all the travelling the CEO of CharterCats was doing, he should have made a point of going to Panama to check Bumfuzzle personally - in the event there was a manufacturing flaw. Other than that, I don't think the company necessarily had a warranty with P&A, but they should have been honest about that instead of stringing P&A along. Kevin
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Yes I kinda agree with both replies above. (It was at somepoint in the middle of this discussion last time, that this topic went to custard. So lets keep on this subject) One thing I don't quite understand is, why are P&A not heading to SA now. I wouldn't expect the builder to go to Panama, but I would have thought P&A to go back to the builder, seeing they are so close. Personly, as I said above, I think there is more to all of it, and it has been unfair on the builder, without us knowing more info. I AM NOT, saying he is inocent. I just think it is unfair for us to lay judgement based on a onesided point of view. I strongly believe that someone else in the middle has more to answer for than both Builder and P&A. And that would be the previouse owner. I don't quite know why he has never been contacted. (as far as I know he hasn't) I would also like to know what the surveyor was contracted to inspect and to what detail and was that what P&A was expecting. I have seen this issue many times before and had it happen to myself. When you are buying for the first time, nievity means that what YOU think and expect, is often very different to what the proffesional delivers. I think the industry could be imporved via more clarity on that subject. Their should be a list of what to expect in an inspection. The more detailed, the more you expect to pay of course. |
Wheels, I do agree with you, but the reported response from the Builder is a good way to kill a business. |
Very true. But in the defense of the builder, I wonder how the issue was presented to the builder by P&A. If it was in an agressive or demeaning manor, then I could imagine the builder getting defensive. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Only the two parties know the whole truth. And I don't think we have been told the entire story. |
agree, but If I was the builder and knowing how much the reputation of my boats was being slaughtered I would at least put up a counterdefence on the web site. |
Good point. |
wildcat..stuff 1. I have been on that boat a couple of years back at annapolis boat show.. at least I am pretty sure. The builder was there. I am NOT by any means an expert in boat building , but i had several questions about a few spots on the boat which were sub standardard to my liking ... I got nothing than arrogant and stupid answers, they were pushing the blue water world cruising story to NO end .... I listened for a while and walked off pretty much knowing that I would not buy a wildcat ... than I read bums account about all their problems... thats all right on the same line as the bull i got fed during the boatshow... Absolutely NO sense to visit him , you would only get a run around and probaly get ulzers in the meantime... as for surveyor... they bought the boat in Florida from one of the premier catamarane outfits ... and had Mr Kanter do the survey. Mr Kanter acknowledged that he doesnt like wild cats even, he is THE catamaran expert no doubt. The more it bumfuzzled me that he did not find the obvious problems with the boat ... lets repeat. Ali and Pat bought from one of the top 5 brokers, had the cat surveyed from the best ...... The emails going back and forth with the builder used to be on the webpage in its entirety. I did not see overly aggressive wording on their behalf ..... threating a lawsuit for slander from Wildcats rounds up the total mess this builder has gotten himself into. ( there are some other wildcats owners who went through similar things , like sheets delaminating as well ) Pat and Ali are different and they went into this with maybe 10 % of the preparation I would have done.... but than ..they are out there meanwhile around half of the world and I am sitting here in cold Illinois and I am dreaming doing the same.... There are so many cool cats out there ( and monos as well ) but Wildcat is not one of them ... thor
p.s. I would think the only folks who think different are the poor souls who actually own one and want to sell it .... |
Yeah, you can blame the greedy bastards over at Wildcats headquarters. That shows they don't care. Plain and simple.:rolleyes:
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I just went back to bumfuzzle site to confirm what i remembered reading months ago about how they chose the boat. The link "how we chose bumuzzle" (or whatever) seems to have disappeared. as i recall, the entry detailed how with almost no research they had decided on the boat they wanted. correct me if i'm wrong, but spacious interior was a prime concern, while such issues as seaworthiness and build quality were left to the pros. my impression was that actually researching boats would have been hard work and what's hard work, after all, when you should be enjoying pizza and :cheers: |
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