Transcription Date: 06/24/04
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| History Project 10
Interviewees: Joe Alcock, Sally Alcock, Willie Stiles, Wayne Carey, Kay Coffman Transcription Date: 06/24/04Transcriber Initials: AB Interviewer: Turn the tape port on and he won’t shut up. (Laughs) Sally : Yeah. Interviewer: All of a sudden silence. Sally : That one has a microphone? Interviewer: Oh I like that one. The first interview round we did, not everything taped so well. So after that one I went to Radioshack and got a microphone and it picks everything up a lot better. Joe : So does this work? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Works quite well. I’ll check it. How do we want to start, maybe we need to just-everyone knows each other now, right. So do we need to do a-maybe for the tape we should do an introduction. Joe : Joe, Joe . Sally : And I am Sally . Interviewer: (Pause) Do we want to go around the circle? Willie : I am , Willie . Sally : You may be thinking of Steve, Dawson? Willie :(Inaudible) Joe : No, that’s Shawn. I live over on Robinson. Joe : (Inaudible) Willie : Oh, okay. Joe : Yeah, that was Shawn. I’m pretty sure. I haven’t been to many meetings. Interviewer: Well, why don’t we start with kind of basic information, when you moved to Kirkwood? So maybe Mr. , if you want to start. Although we kind of already formally discussed this. When did you move to-would you tell us again when you moved to Kirkwood and why you moved to Kirkwood? What drew you to Kirkwood? Willie : (Everyone laughs) (Inaudible, microphone is too far away) Interviewer: Where did you move from? Willie : Rockdale. (Inaudible, mumbling, laughing) Sally : And that’s in Rockdale county, or not? Willie : No. Joe : Carol might. Sally : Oh really? Willie : Right up there up the street. Before you get to (inaudible) Interviewer: Oh. Willie : It’s like I live right up on the other side of here. Interviewer: Okay. Willie : Raised up there. I was born and raised there. Interviewer: Well when did you come from Rockdale to Fairheights? Willie : It was like the 1996 (Inaudible) to Rockdale now. Joe : Not Rockdale County, Rockdale was the name of the development. Willie : Right. Rockdale Park. Sally : You see this was before I got here--- Interviewer: Oh so you have to--- Joe : You can’t assume. Interviewer: Yeah. Assume no knowledge. Sally : Joe and I moved to Atlanta in 1996. Joe : I think that was 1997. Sally : 1997? Interviewer: Now so--- Joe : You can give us the real history. Interviewer: I know. Where was Rockdale in terms of the city? Willie : Up there on 62 and 82 up that street. Interviewer: Oh, okay. Willie : (Inaudible) Road. Johnson Road. Sally : Oh, hi Bruce. Interviewer: Hi Bruce, I am Lesley Reid. We talk on the phone frequently. Sally : How are you doing? Wayne : Doing good. I just to say that (inaudible) and see if you needed anything. Interviewer: Thank you. Will do. Wayne : All right. You all take care. Willie : You all know Hollywood and Bankhead? Interviewer: No. Joe : Hollywood? Sally : I know Bankhead. Interviewer: That’s down Marietta. Joe : It’s got to be over near Ashford Street. Sally : Oh Ashford, yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Willie : Where I used to live at is right on the backside. Sally : Okay. Willie : That’s Bankhead Hwy that runs right up to Mason Park. Interviewer: Oh okay. Willie : Rockdale will be on your right. Over by Howard Station. Right there were the water works. All that is (inaudible). Interviewer: Oh, okay. Now I have an idea of where it is, where it was. So why did they tear it down? Willie : The whole place that what was done. (Inaudible few words) Interviewer: They never built it back? Joe : That was a part urban redevelopment. Interviewer: What went up in place? What’s there now? Willie : Well this apartment and (inaudible) and then they had ten mind so it did help with one of the first (inaudible few words). Interviewer: Well then, when did you all move to Kirkwood? Joe : To Kirkwood? It was 1999. June of 1999. Sally : June of 1999. Interviewer: So we have both sides of the spectrum here tonight. Sally : We just moved to Atlanta in 1997. Joe : It was only 20 years later. (Everyone laughs) Willie : There was supposed to be a little town in (inaudible). I’ve been wondering about it. I ain’t been able to see the little sign that says Town of Kirkwood. Did you all ever see it? It was over here on the middle of the tracks. Over by Howard Street a big city thing. Did you get to see it? Interviewer: Nuh-uh. Willie : One of the silver signs that read between the Marta tracks and the railroad tracks. Sally : And it said Town of Kirkwood? Willie : It said Welcome to the Town of Kirkwood. Sally : Ahh. Willie : Right between Rockford and that street-I can’t remember. Joe : Norwood? Willie : Norwood, sit right across the way there. Joe : Huh, that must have been just in the last two or three years. Unknown man: Maybe that all disappeared during Marta was done. Sally : No. Willie : No, it ain’t been gone two or three years, it was up there. Sally : Huh, we’ve been here for what, four years? Joe : I never thought--- Sally : Three years in June, so we didn’t see it unless we just missed it. Interviewer: Well if it right there between the railroad tracks and Marta, you’d probably have to know what you are looking for. Sally : Was it over on the north side or was it on the south side? On the College side or Dekalb Avenue? Willie : It was on this side. Sally : On our side, College. Willie : College. Sally : Maybe Wayne and Kay saw it. Interviewer: Well why did you move-where did you live when you first moved here? Joe : When we first moved to Atlanta we lived in Dunwoody, Springs, Sandy Springs. Big huge apartment complex. Interviewer: So then the next question is why did you move to Kirkwood? Sally : (Laughs) Joe : Because Sally wanted to buy a house. Sally : Yeah, I was tried, we had just gotten married. We had been in-I guess we had just gotten married, moved to Atlanta, lived in the apartment for about two years, and my degree is in Horticulture, even though I kill plants. I was really wanting a yard to garden in and everything so I started harassing Joe about houses. And I worked at Paces Nature and Garden Center at the time in Brookhaven. And one of my co-workers lived in Oakhurst. And he started telling me about the area. And I knew, I am not sure if Joe knew, I knew that I wanted-that we wanted to live in town because every time we went to a restaurant or we meet our friends or things like that for entertainment we would come to Midtown or just in town to do things or to Midtown. And so we started looking around. I guess Scott drew us a little map of the area. And it was interesting, I guess four years ago when we were looking he had been living in Oakhurst for about two years, and he said, “Don’t go to south of Hosea. It’s scary south of Hosea.” So I laughed now because I’m like, “Boy. It wasn’t scary but Kirkwood. Boy he was wrong.” And then one of our friends had bought a house in East Atlanta. And he told us, “Why don’t you check out Kirkwood. That’s going to be really hot place.” Well, it already was a hot place to start looking for houses. And the houses fit into our price range. A lot of them did. So--- Interviewer: Oh, look who’s here. Sally : We spent six months looking though. Joe : We spent six months, probably more then six months. I would be driving around on my days off. Interviewer: Hey, come on in. Kay : Oh it’s beautiful. Sally : Mr. , Mr. Willie was telling us about there used to be a sign across from Norwood in between the Marta tracks and the train tracks that said Welcome to Kirkwood, or Now Entering Kirkwood, something like that? So you remember that? Wayne : No, that’s way before us. Kay : No, that was gone before we got here obviously. Unknown man: How long have you been here? Wayne : 17 years. Unknown man: 17. Wayne : Well, maybe it was gone just before--- Kay : You must have paid no attention either. (Everyone laughs) Sally : How big was it? Unknown man: Huh? Sally : How big was it? Was it---? Unknown man: Well it was about the block base of some kind of fredport or something, some freeport or about up to the tracks. I guess it stood about, maybe about six feet. (Inaudible sentence, mumbling) Interviewer: Does everyone know each other? do you know Wayne and Cat? Unknown man: Yeah. Interviewer: No need for introductions then. I’ll give you all, all the gory details afterwards. But we are tape recording the interview. If there is anything that you don’t want on the tape just tell me and we’ll just turn it off. If there’s anything you say that you want to erase on the tape just tell me and we’ll backtrack. We’ve actually done that in some interviews so far. Sally : We turn it off when it’s discussing and we turn it back on again later. Interviewer: We did, and boy did I want to turn it back on, but no. (Everyone laughs) It won’t be turned back on, no. Wayne : It will make people in the future wonder what they were missing. Interviewer: Although the question that I asked that made it get turned off was still on there. We only did introductions and started talking about when we moved to Kirkwood and why we moved to Kirkwood. So you all like to contribute when you all came and what drew you to Kirkwood? Why did you move here, where did you move from? Wayne : Cathy? Kay : Say it. Wayne : All right. I moved in 1986, I knew of Kirkwood from (inaudible) essentially no further then Decatur and Lake Claire. And we also had a domestic situation and ended up this is where I decided that I could afford to live. Interviewer: And what beyond, is there anything beyond just the value of Kirkwood that drew you here? Wayne : It was familiar. It was like my hometown. It was the environment, which I grew up it, so--- Interviewer: And did you always live around here? Wayne : Since I got out of college in 1974. So I haven’t strayed to far from Decatur. Interviewer: I’d said you haven’t. And Kay, what about you? Kay : I came here from Indiana and Virginia and then I came to Stone Mountain, where I lived for about a year. Started raising my children. And Lee and I were driving around looking for a place to (inaudible) and live. And we stumbled into Kirkwood. Saw a house we liked. Interviewer: And have you been in the same house the whole time? Wayne : No. No, we were assaulted by Doug. (Everyone laughs) Him and Lynn. Kay : He forced us to stay in Kirkwood. Wayne : Doug and Lynn. Lenny and Ray. It’s like anyone that came out looking for a house they were like peeking out between the blinds or something. They kind of came out and…they were very convincing as to the merits of living in the community so. Interviewer: Well we now have like three kind of timeframes here, have the whole gambit now. Wayne : 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. Yeah, works out really good. Interviewer: Yeah, we got all of it. (Everyone laughing) Sally : You had mentioned how people came out and there were really wanting you to move here. People were so friendly. The same situation that happened to me before we moved here when I was working at Hastings one Saturday. This really nice jolly old man came in and I was standing there and I struck up a conversation with him. And we just started talking and he just talked, talked, talked, talked, talked. And I said, “Well my husband and I are looking at Kirkwood.” And he was like, “ Why, I live in Kirkwood!” And I was like, “Really?” And so I just got really excited, I went back home and told Joe, “I met this great guy who was just so nice and he told me all about Kirkwood and said why we would move there and everything.” And low and behold it was Steve Stracky. And that was probably, I don’t know, three months before we moved here? So, I always remembered him. Interviewer: Since everyone moved kind of at different times, what Kirkwood was different I think for everyone moving in. So, Mr. , what was Kirkwood like? Who would you describe Kirkwood to someone when you moved here? What was it like when you moved here? Willie : Friendly, a lot of friendly people. (Inaudible few words) over there on the expressway. Interviewer: What about businesses. What were the businesses like? Willie : The business was nice, right. You had theaters--- Interviewer: There was a movie theater still? Willie : ---Larger grocery store. Yeah. Right there, right over on Hosea Williams across from the (inaudible). The upstairs and downstairs. Interviewer: What else was here? Sally : Grocery store? Willie : Grocery store. Joe : Drugstore. Wayne : Trolley was probably still running. Willie : Drugstore. Interviewer: Was the trolley still running? Willie : Streetcar was running. Trolley. Interviewer: What year did the streetcar go? Wayne : I think it was the 1990s. Joe : What is he talking about? Wayne : They still had some trolleys left. Joe : Oh. Willie : Trolleys. Wayne : Was there a bank here at that time? Willie : No. There was one just before that. Otherwise the town was very good. Real nice. A lot of businesses, the drugstore, flower shop. Interviewer: Sounds-getting jealous. Joe : Sounds like you got almost all your businesses. Interviewer: Yeah. Joe : In walking distance, just about all of them. Willie : Yes, everything was about walking distance. Kay : You won’t have to leave the neighborhood. Wayne : If you did you leave the street. Willie : Only in walking distance, across the railroad tracks, Miles Street. The street would (inaudible) on the other side. Interviewer: There were many businesses on the other side of College? Willie : Yes. I just thought (inaudible) all in walking distance. Interviewer: Nicely all contained. Where did you work back then? Willie : I worked in Paulding, a restaurant. Interviewer: So you still work---? Willie : I never left here except to go to my job. Get transportation to there, three or four ways to catch a bus there. Number 18 down there, it went up down Delano, turned on 6th. And go over to Decatur. And then the Stone Mountain bus come back, College afternoon. And the Decatur bus over there in Decatur. Interviewer: When did, when you were talking about the businesses, I was getting jealous. When did you start seeing businesses close down in Kirkwood? Willie : I would say about 1960s, 1970s. Interviewer: What was happening? Willie : Folks were moving out. Joe : Where were they moving to? Willie : I don’t know. Joe : Do you know what time that they moved? Interviewer: I stuck around. Willie : No, I can’t even tell you what influenced there. The (inaudible) is so hard to find and find a place to stay. Joe : I couldn’t-it just hard to believe that it was so nice and that people would be moving out. Interviewer: Well what about in the 1980s when you all moved in? What was Kirkwood like then, how would you describe Kirkwood? Wayne : You mean there were the obvious--- Kay : It was friendly. Wayne : ---Problems. I mean there really was--- Kay : It was friendly then and that was one thing that really attached us to it. Wayne : ---I mean one of the things that set it, it was one of the things that we said early on was that if you slowed down and looked at the quality of the people then you realized you had a really-it was a very welcoming community. Once again, we had a lot of the older neighbors up on the upper end of Howard Street were again very small town in that you could, you didn’t have to stop and talk to them everyday but you could stop and talk and pick up on again “Hi, how do you do?” What was going on and you ended up knowing a lot of people is what-you had the opportunity to know a lot of people. And I thought that was one of the nice things about having the chance to live, again what seemed to be a small town neighborhood. Again that you had that opportunity. So of it was out of just the way people were brought up. Some of it was out of necessity of having to deal with problems. But again there’s never been anywhere else. Interviewer: Well all three of you were here in the 1980s. What kind of problems was Kirkwood facing in the 1980s? What were the challenges? Maybe not necessarily the problems, but challenges the neighborhood faced? Kay : There was a lot of drug dealing, more then there is now. A lot more. A lot of prostitutes. A lot of what I would have just considered more violence. There was a lot of shooting. Rides, it got pretty noisy, especially around New Years Eve. You couldn’t believe what that was like. That’s the thing I remember. I just remember that there really was a lot of, there was a lot of shooting went on. A lot of it came from apartments and things like that. Wayne : There was a lot more in the way of background noise--- Kay : There just was more. The police were here a lot. Wayne : It just was louder, it really was in some ways it was. There were a fair number of absentee landlords. Again you had the effect of East Lake Meadows that had imposed itself on a lot of communities on this side of the tracks. You had politicians that used it as kind of…they cared about the constituents during elections and then that was pretty much where it ended. I mean when we moved it there was a process of electing Ward Spendely. And good old Ward Spendely apparently used it to promote himself, promote his printing business and the like Hosea ran on a platform-Hosea Williams ran on a platform of putting someone in office that would respond to the neighborhood. Amazing in the four years that he served as city council person, he was accessible. He was amazingly commutative to the concerns when you called down to his office. For all the stuff that he did on the “Voice of the Crusader” on public access TV. And his habit of taking his Cadillac and driving it into something, the man was accessible and he did, as far as I was concerned as a council person, he was a good representative. It was ashamed that he tired of the position and he ended up filing a position that was vacated through a corruption charge of, I am trying to remember what it was. Kay : Dekalb County. Wayne : The Dekalb County council member and what was his name. Seymour Time or something. But again he more or less tired of it once it seemed like it contained, the challenges were really, really great so he didn’t presume it like maybe some of us wish he had keep the course because it would have given us a better chance to maybe had a little stronger voice. Kay : Well, he did start us down that way. Wayne : Yeah. Interviewer: Well beyond-you’ve mentioned what the politicians were doing at the time and a little bit about the police. What other city, what were other city services like for the neighborhood at that point and time? Kay : Are they better? Wayne : I don’t know. Kay : No, they are better. So of it’s better. But I don’t know--- Wayne : Well like what Sherman said the other day out on the street, I mean she said that the police for zone six we have the lowest crime rate in the district. Kay : Oh, I wasn’t anything about the crime or the police. I was talking about other city services. Wayne : Oh, city services. Kay : Sanitation. Wayne : Ah, yeah. Kay : I think it’s always been, I think it’s always been a problem in this area. I just have never felt in all the years that I lived here that we’ve ever gotten what other parts of the city get. Sally : Was it-Candler Park and any of them, was it a lot worse in the 1980s? Kay : I think it was probably worse although in the years it’s improved so slowly, I would say. I don’t think there’s a much, many trash piles on the street that’s making their rounds. Wayne : I actually thought of when Hosea became Dekalb County commissioner, he actually ran for the position because what happened was Nate Mosley was assigned to John Evans’ remaining term and he ran against him. So it was Hosea Williams running against Nate Mosley for the seat and Nate lost and Hosea won. And again, he kind of got tired of the position. Kay : That was in his last--- Wayne : Yes, that was his last political position he ever really wanted or tried to obtain. Maybe it was too much work and so, possibly so. Interviewer: Let’s jump up to the 1990s. What was Kirkwood like four years ago? (Laughing) Of course--- Joe : I think it’s been a good time. I big event that was going on when we moved it was the centennial festival. That neighborhood was still having it’s 100 year university. Having this big hoorah in the park. And of course we had just moved in and walked in the park and still trying to figure out people’s names let alone what was going on. Sally : And it was like it is now. A dream neighborhood. Really pretty, the people were very nice. We were concerned when we moved in a little bit about safety because I guess I grew up in Alabama in a rural community so it was the first time that I ever moved to move of a city type environment and this was just different then what I was accustomed to. I think Joe was a little more worried, a lot more worried then that then I was. And then I remember after we first moved it, let’s see, a shooting right outside. I was home alone and there was, I heard an argument outside on the street and I walked out and I was looking of the front door, well the door wasn’t opened, but I was looking out the front window next thing you know I heard gunshots and this young guy leaped across my front lawn and came running up. Ran up-well, did he run down the house? I think he might have ran down the side of the house and then he jumped on the porch and asked me to let him in the house. And I am like, “No!” And all the while I am calling the police and I am on the phone. So that was exciting. (Everyone laughs) Interviewer: That would be terrible. You don’t know if it’s the guy that was doing the shooting or getting shot at. Sally : Exactly! Interviewer: Or both! Sally : But it was definitely exciting but that hasn’t happened since. (Everyone laughs) Kay : Oh my good if it was a weekly occurrence. Sally : But yeah just nice and…and there was a lot more, a lot of our neighbors on our street since have moved away. And Mrs. Annette who was a long time-did you know Mrs. Annette Edzards who lived across the street? Mrs. Annette died this past year and she was a sweet, sweet, sweet lady. She had lived there for many, many years. Joe : Mrs. Bridgette passed away about six months after we, maybe a year. Sally : He and his wife, Sweetman who loved to garden, he loved to talk. He was so excited when Joe and I started re-doing our front yard. He said it was nice because it looked like it had a design to it. And so he was very nice. He liked grow hens and chicks. Hens and chicks, he was always wanting to share something from his garden. Interviewer: People moving away, where were they moving to? Sally : Our house we actually bought our house from an investor but we met the family who lived there when we were looking and they were moving to Stone Mountain and I heard of a lot of people who were moving out to the Stone Mountain area. And I thought it was interesting that the family who we bought our house from, once before they moved to Atlanta they lived in Fairview Alabama and that’s were I had moved from. From that area so I though that was interesting. Kind of the same places that we’d lived. A lot of people were moving to Stone Mountain. Any other places? Kay : Lithonia. Willie : Yeah. Those places would be just like Kirkwood. Now they start looking saggy. People start (inaudible) dealing like that just like Kirkwood. Housing could have been down, right on line. Because most of them they are building right on the ground and (inaudible) the crawlspaces. Interviewer: Houses feel more solid. Willie : They are built on a concrete slab. Sally : But I know the family that we bought our house from I think that they seemed to be pretty happy about the investor that bought their house. I think they made a pretty good profit on selling their house to the investor and I they seemed excited to be moving to Stone Mountain because I think they were moving into a newer house, a newer home. It was a very nice family, two children. Wayne : Mostly I think I was the occurrence over and over again, I think that something that I asked Mrs. Warren was again some years back, I said you know as we tried to create a livable community whether or not their children would want to move back in. There are still families that have multi-generational ties to the old in the 1970s. In less then two years the families that I had gone to high school with that had lived in houses down in Virginia for maybe three generations, the houses had been sold and it was always difficult I think to, if people are working towards the American dream of owing your own home and buying something new and so on, that did not mean coming back to this neighborhood or this community. Success was not based on, and hasn’t been based on for a long time on living in what people would have called a marginal neighborhood. It’s hard to bring the boss home for dinner it you live in a marginal neighborhood. It’s hard to impress clients if you live in a marginal neighborhood. It’s hard to say, “I’ve gotten a college education, I’ve achieved a certain amount of success and I live in a marginal neighborhood.” Those are not the things that you do. And the children that grew up in this community. Joe : I am laughing because when we bought our house my parents loaned us a little bit of money for the down payment. And the two things that we had down to our house was the hardwood floors sanded and refinished and the outside painted because it had been spray painted pink somewhere along the line. And when my parents came to visit the only thing they could say was-the only thing that my father could say was, “I really like these floors.” (Everyone laughs) Sally : That is all he’d say, he’d say, “These floors sure are nice.” Wayne : But I think a lot of it has to do again with that kind of environment. My mother underneath her wall to wall carpet are some very nice oak floors. But part of it was that her generation that again it was painted wood floors, scrubbed wood floors or wood floors that didn’t have carpet but maybe a little piece of gold linoleum. So to kind of keep up with the Joneses or become part of that again culture the thing was to get wall to wall carpet. All her friends have wall to wall. Interviewer: On a nice slab floor. Kay : Yeah, they are. Wayne : So it was that kind of thing. So I don’t know. I mean there is that and I think that was one of the sad things about again the community because it was an older community yet the younger professional people again left and they weren’t coming back. And I think it kind of left a vacuum for quite a few years were essentially the older people, when I say older anywhere from Kay : 0 to retirement and beyond, essentially had to support the community. And amazingly again their stability did so. Because again otherwise this community would have been more like Vine City or Mechanicville or something like that were real stresses would have been placed on it. And there would have probably been a lot more in the way of vacant lots, maybe abandoned houses or substandard housing. Not that there wasn’t that over here but it would have been a think even more so. And it’s kind of testament to the fact you had in the 1960s when essentially the influx of blacks from around the civic center and the stadium and so on. The thing was that you had really honest middle class folks moving in and they were brining middle class values. The ironic thing is that we have a person who retired from the government. His dad still lives on Emory Place, comes a does the grass cutting around but yet his, and he used to live across from his dad by Emory Place and that’s Darrell Favors. Darrell partially maybe because of what--- Kay : I think it was because (inaudible). Wayne : Okay, he had a young son move because of the schools. Well that’s something you hear all the time. So Darrell is out in Douglasville. Sally : So does Darrell’s father still live on Emory? Wayne : Mm-hmm. Sally : Really? Wayne : Mm-hmm. Sally : Which house? Wayne : Second from the corner on Emory and Kirkwood Road I think. Sally : Oh, okay, I didn’t know that. Joe : Home over there. Wayne : Yeah, but it’s so funny, Darrell spends just as much time over here now as he ever did when he lived on Emory place I think. But I think part of it too was the fact that he was able to buy a new house and there’s a whole host of things that he got to achieve. Kay : Probably a bigger house with the same kind of money. Interviewer: What about-you mentioned schools? Mr. , did you raise children here? Willie : No. I had no children, I was a step-father. Interviewer: Well and you didn’t raise children here? Will you raise children here? (Everyone laughs) Joe : Not more pressure. (Everyone laughs) Probably the same time Lesley will. Well you raise children first, alter the question here. Wayne : Kay’s working hard to get a good school system going here so you better. Interviewer: I mean that’s a question that goes around--- Wayne : I think that’s a very legitimate question. I think that’s to me that’s the greatest hurdle or issue or challenge that our neighborhood faces now. I think there’s a lot of--- Kay : If it was there, by gosh. Sally : And I can’t, I just tell everyone I can’t imagine living anywhere else. I mean even moving over to East Lake or moving somewhere else, I just can’t imagine. I love all my neighbors. I just love the neighborhood. I think Kirkwood is a great place to have children. Interviewer: If you were to have children…? Joe : Can we stop this and (inaudible, people laughing). I am just kidding. Wayne : Get Sally (inaudible, same reason). Kay : But I mean that definitely is a concern and we are seeing a lot of people would move here and the schools aren’t up to par and then they move out after they have children. Or and I think a lot of us just going in and starting just in the over the last few years trying to volunteer at the schools and everything and improve the schools. I think everyone, a lot of people would like to stay here after they have children. And so… Wayne : See I think what’s interesting to me is that…it’s always been like this. Every generation until our generation has always had this black white conflict and I mean, I doubt you remember anything or Martin Luther King Jr. when he was alive like I do. I don’t remember anything. So it’s all history books and legend to me and a lot of people around here a generation before us have this preconceived notions and what the race conflicts were and none of that applies to me so integrating into the neighborhood or into the schools in that is a whole different perspective than it every was. And I think really the concern to me is been more is it a quality school, will my child get a quality education then anything else. Willie : And it’s a school thing, just like you said. The black and white thing is mostly politics and they monitor our schools like that. We work hard and this high school were one of the children go, it’s a lot of frustration and they’d change the name two or three times. Joe : What’s it called now? Willie : Krim. Joe : Krim? Oh okay. Willie : They changed it. They change so fast I can’t keep up with it. (Everyone laughs) It really has nice schools over there. Wayne : But it’s a good school, it’s just not… Willie : It’s about the only thing in Kirkwood that needs improvement. Because it was on Rollins Street. Wayne : This health center was on Rollins Street? Willie : The street where the school was at. Interviewer: Oh the little building right in front of the school? Oh. Willie : Yeah. Kay : Where the William T. White Center is now. Willie : See I can’t remember all of this. I can remember where it was and all that but I can’t think of the names and all that. That’s something that happens to you when you get up in the 80s. You forget those things. Kay : Right, you just don’t know when. Willie : You forget about stuff. Kay : But that’s one of the things that I think is having-if young people moved in here like when they are first married or whatever, is keeping them here after they have children. And we have seen already several couples, once they have a baby they leave. Because they are looking at the future as, “Oh my god, I can’t send my child to school in Atlanta. I have to pay for private school if I stay here. So what’s the better deal, I move out to the suburbs.” Interviewer: And you always--- Wayne : Well Atlanta compared to the other metro countries isn’t rank very favorable. Even--- Kay : Well, overall. Wayne : ---North Fulton County, which is Atlanta to Cobb County to Cherokee or any of those, it’s the same concept anywhere you go. Sally : And it’s always the same situation that you want to give your children what you didn’t have. Or make sure that their life is better then yours. Or that’s my thing, always… Interviewer: What other challenges do you think Kirkwood is facing now other then the schools? Wayne : I think again there has to be the ability to have participation with the people that move in. They have to become, a well-worn word, they have to become stake holders. They have to have the want or desire to volunteer with a neighborhood group or with the school or with some other organization that means that there will be-that wants to work towards the betterment of the community as a whole. To again to and that includes voting. And we’ve had ups and downs with the voting percentages and again the fact that Bush is leading towards the other big concern, that is property taxes or again local governments are essentially consciously coming and trying to make up their shortfalls or their lack of administrative capabilities by always coming to the taxpayers to ask for more money. This neighborhood since we’ve lived here, whether it was Dekalb County collecting the taxes or Fulton County collecting the taxes for the city of Atlanta has always paid more then it’s fair share. Which is kind of interesting. And it’s a hard thing to address because again the good people that we moved in here with in the beginning would always pay their taxes. They would find a way to pay their taxes. Even if their house was assessed for little or nothing it’s still, if you are on a fixed income or if you have to get some type of…something from help from the government, food assistants and so on, they always figured out how to pay their taxes. And again it may have been an extra $25 or an extra $20, but still it was a hardship that they always did. Because they felt it was part of what they owned. It was their duty and the like of that still holds true. I think that’s where again people becoming a stake holder and understanding the necessity of registering to vote and to vote is extremely important especially when you have budgets that are so complex that you really have to find easy of finding people who can be the voice of the citizen, for the tax payer. Interviewer: Kind of makes me think of two questions. First everyone who has been here for a while, do you think to the patient involvement, commitment to the neighborhood has gone up? Going down, staying the same over the past maybe 10 years, even five years? Willie : I think it’s going up. I’ve seen it go down before, go down, go up three or four times. Joe : What’s making you feel that way? Willie : Well I can see. Wayne : More of an intuitive, an intuitive thing. Something you feel. Interviewer: What you do all think, do you agree or disagree? Sally : What about in the time that we lived here---? Joe : It’s going down. I think it’s going down a lot. I think, I guess we caught the tail end of the people that moved in and felt like they were bringing change with them and I feel like the people moving in now are, “ This is a house, I move in, I am going to put all my furniture and there I am.” Where when I see it we’re on the tail end because I think a lot of the people that came in before us came here and said, “Wow, look at that potential here. It’s not here but look at the potential. Look at this old house that’s been burned twice and rebuilt with duct tape and whatever and now they are putting all this energy back into these things that have declined. I think the mindset is below that now. It’s I want a nice house, I want to move in, I want it all brand new polished and shined. I want my neighborhood to be that way too. Sally : Somebody else do it. Wayne : But they may attack some of these other things, like the sanitation problem. How come the street sweeper doesn’t sweep my street. Unknown man: I saw one in Kirkwood today for the time for years now. Kay : I didn’t see it on my street. Unknown man: Actually it wasn’t moving it was sitting on the corner. Kay : I’ve only seen one in like four years. Wayne : And it’s moving 40 miles an hour. Wayne : Down the center of the street. Down the center. Heaven forbid he does those edges. Interviewer: But um--- Joe : I’d like to hear what they think because… Wayne : I’ll agree with it also. It comes and it goes. When I first moved here the meetings… Kay : Everybody volunteered. Wayne : Well no, it sucked us in and again I, there was a recreated neighborhood organization. Well, there were a lot of people attending but something that Lynn said and it holds true today just as much as it did when she said it in 1985 was be careful because the tendency of human nature is to let whoever is doing it do it. And it becomes a sole proprior-ship kind of a deal. And it didn’t happen that way. The organization that they recreated was of the second of the ones who newcomers, I think you had newsletters from one of the minis had started. When the newsletter was essentially front and back of an 8 by 11. Unknown man: Mini or graph sheets. Wayne : Mini or graph sheets. Then there was the one during 1985, 1987maybe 1988 which was--- Unknown man: For future generations that is now recorded at the Atlanta Civic Center. Wayne : Okay, so there was that. And then it kind of faded away. IT came back in 1993 and pretty much stayed since then. That is the organizational that we had now. But it again, there was certainly a (inaudible, someone coughs) it was, it’s amazing, if you have things that are issue driven a lot of times you can get more people to participate then when it’s just oh it’s about street cleaning. Oh it’s about the mundane things of life. Sally : Because when we first move here, not only the centennial festival but it was during the one. When there was the rest of the Marta line coming through so there were all these rallies and everything going on and we jumped in at the tail end of that. And so there were all sorts of people that came to the meetings and the rallies and everything. Some of the people I’ve never seen again. (Everyone laughs) But that was a big controversy and I think that--- Wayne : Right, I am think that stuff that is issue driven a lot times will get people to come out for a while but again they do seem to have a limited amount of…I won’t say attention span, but they will have a limited about of time that they put into something and then it’s back to their regular routine. There was one of the things with the neighborhood organization about putting the date on the tenth was to try to get people to realize that if they looked at the yearly calendar their should be want to multiple days in that calendar in which they could attend. So, because it floated all through what would be the seven days of the week. There should be at least one of two times that you should be able to come and participate. But again people are just-it’s the way people are sometimes. I think a lot of times it’s just some much easier to let someone else to do. That doesn’t mean what Joe’s saying about lower participation. Let’s just put it this way. The quality of those that participate at this point is of a high caliber. (Laughs) And as much as getting done with the people that are working on projects then if you had many 200 people that would show up. Again it’s the output and the output has been consistent since KNO came into inception in 1993. Interviewer: The other question I had-there’s no good segway into it, but on your last comment talking about challenges the neighborhood is facing, you talked about property taxes, regularly there are annotate stories of people getting forced out of their homes because of property taxes being too high. And you talked about people who on fixed incomes doing anything as long as you get the property taxes paid. Do you see that as a reality today? Kay : I haven’t meet anyone since I’ve lived here who’s been forced out. Joe : I don’t know anybody. Wayne : I have identified pieces of property, I don’t know if I will. I feel that it will be changing hands here in the next few months of maybe years. Joe : No, I don’t know anybody that has been forced out. Kay : I think a lot of times it’s the media that paints that, that portrays that. Joe : We don’t know the whole stories, but I think a lot of the people who have left and the story might have been told by someone else that they left because of that. Left because they wanted to move to Stone Mountain or Lithonia or wherever. Wayne : Well, we had two people on Warren Place and they weren’t forced out but what they did was, and then again this is again people not realizing or overextending themselves. The Colons left because again… Kay : She had too many… Wayne : Home repairs and they essentially they had debt on credit cards. Kay : That’s what happen to her. Wayne : And essentially they had to leave, or they left because of the possibility of foreclosure. The same held true at the end of Warren and Kirkwood Road with that family was the fact that the debt load that came from--- Joe : I wonder what they did with the money that they borrowed against that house. Wayne : Poorly executed loans and so on and then the fact that their was a huge debt load. The people next door to you had the same problem. Booker and them left because of a poorly executed loan. And I think on e of the things that came with this recent tax appeal is…and I would say that my folks would do the same thing, and they are in their 80s. And if someone came up and said to my mother or my dad, “I will help you with your property taxes.” They would not be receptive to it. Because people have this thing about not wanting you to know about their business. And it’s again, that’s human nature. Whether they need the help of not, they really lack, they are just uncomfortable with it. But we were doing a tax appeal for a person on Bates. And one of the things that I mentioned to the gentleman, because we looked it up. Was the fact that he was by himself, he was on fixed income. He had children but it was offering the service without any opinion on way or another. But the point was to make sure that he could stay in his house or that he would be able to say a few dollars instead of having to pay a few dollars more and I think a lot of times there’s that, again it’s really hard to break those barriers. And again it’s not, it came be race but sometimes it deals with education. It deals with social-economic. It’s class. It’s real hard to go and say, “You know, I’ve really made a mess of things. Can you help me do something.” Kay : Absolutely. Wayne : And people are really, they don’t want to admit or--- Joe : That’s probably why we don’t hear as much about it either. Just a family up and moves out and all of a sudden their house is for sale and it’s like, “Well jee, I wonder what happened?” Kay : But when you look up some of those on the web, the Dekalb county website. I mean, it is just appalling what some of the houses are appraised for and you drive by and you know that elderly people are living there. I mean there’s one by our center, and I can’t remember how much it was. And it’s always the question about how many of these people have appealed their taxes. And I know the one year that they took that really big jump that year, Ray went up and now the street to get people to do it. To understand what they were facing. And the people are the same way. Theirs was just always very high. Wayne : You look up the number of people who have applied for the homestead exemption too, and--- Kay : Yeah and some of those are missing, and you wonder why. Or for as many exemption as they can get because they are--- Wayne : Well some of this can be (inaudible) and was a problem and we still see some like this and there’s a problem. When we first moved over here again it was redlined. You paid more in your homeowners insurance if you could get homeowners insurance. You pay more in your automobile insurance. (Laugh) You had, getting a mortgage through conventional means was just about impossible. Literally it was just about virtually impossible. So what really happened and I guess what is so sad about this past legislative session was there is a community like Kirkwood in the 1980s and the 1990s was pushed to using a secondary or subset lenders. Where they could charge higher rates and again…and it was really unfortunate and there were other schemes that would come through as well. Whether it was vinyl siding and replacement windows and so on. Sometimes you wonder about these schemes that are supposed to helping people but yet ultimately they put the families in a situation where they have the potential of losing their house. So I mean there’s issues and then there’s-here’s one issue but then their a lot of bullets points where--- Kay : But then there is too when we were looking at then, the houses in Kirkwood were appraised and it happened over the years, for what then they would sell for and then you would look at Lake Claire, you would look somewhere else, their houses would be way below what they were going to sell for. 100,000, 150,000 less. And then you are saying well why is it in Kirkwood and East Lake, all this entire side of the tracks for some reason, ours were appraised pretty close to value and that’s a hard thing to go in front of the board and you are saying, “I don’t like it because my house is appraised at value.” And they say, “Well that’s where it should be, and all that kind of stuff.” So then you have to bring up all these other houses that aren’t. That you use as examples. “Well why is this one?” That’s definitely what happened to us that last time we move houses on the other side of the tracks that really were not comparable to ours because of what they would sell it for. Or what they had to sell it for. Interviewer: Well what about all the new construction in the neighborhood? We were talking a little bit about that before we started. What do you think that will due in terms or either the taxes or the feel of the neighborhood or people who live here or anything? What’s your take on it? Willie : It will make the tax go up. What you own on tax is what it probably going to be it’s a hard on the sewage. Interviewer: Really? Willie : We have a small sewage and they are going to need to enlarge it. Interviewer: Over it the new development off of Marlor Hill. Willie : The houses over there on the right hand side and over back in that area are (tape inaudible) Side A ends. Directory: ~wwwkhp -> transcripts transcripts -> Kirkwood History Project Interview of Lamar Feagans Interview number: 16a interviewer: lr, rm transcription date: 04/06/2004 Transcribed by: ab reviewed and edited by: lf review date: 01/15/2005 Interviewer 1 transcripts -> Interviewer: Cheryl Cowherd transcripts -> Kirkwood History Project Interview of Maebelle Reeves (1) and Shannon Ruff (2) Interview number: khp12 Transcription date: June 8, 2004 Transcribed by: ab interviewer 1 Download 119.75 Kb. Share with your friends:
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