Regarding postbaccs, I excluded them, on the assumption that they do not enroll in new four-year programs, which would be reduced to three for this program. Also, basing admission on high school SAT and GPA would make little sense for students who have completed a degree. An entirely separate program would have to be set up for these students, which is not the equivalent of Willamette’s program for its own students. I just don’t see how we can do this (or why we should). Do you disagree? Here’s where I make the exclusion specific:
The proposed program will enable qualified OSU students to earn a BA or BS degree and law degrees in a total of six years. OSU students can be admitted to the proposed program anytime during their first two years of undergraduate study. (Students who have already earned one baccalaureate degree are not eligible for this program.)At the end of their third year, having completed all degree requirements for an identified B.A. or B.S. degree in a program in the College of Liberal Arts, with the exception of 45 hours of upper-division electives, qualified students can be admitted to the Willamette University College of Law, where their first-year law courses will satisfy the elective requirements for their OSU degree. After completing the additional two years at Willamette, participating students will have completed both the Bachelors and J.D. degrees in six years (or three years enrolled at OSU and three years enrolled at Willamette University).
Regarding transfer credits, you raised the issue of community college transfer credits in your questions to Kent, but there is actually no reference to community colleges in the current proposal. The statement about transfer credits is in the list of requirements:
Complete the equivalent of 135 credits, including a minimum of 45 credits as admitted students at Oregon State University immediately prior to matriculating at Willamette University.
So, no change is necessary for that. Let me know if you agree with excluding postbaccs; if you do, I’ll have Helene upload a draft with the paragraph above.
Thanks for your continuing help,
From: Beach, Gary
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:12 PM
To: Oriard, Michael
Cc: Williams, Sarah
Subject: FW: Baccalaureate 3 + 3 Law Program Proposal with Willamette University
As part of my follow-up review of the 3 + 3 proposal, I sent Kent Kuo several questions last week (this was subsequent to the AP Preliminary Meeting). Purpose: I wanted to make sure that there would be no unforeseen issues with regard to your unique proposal.
Based on Kent’s response to my questions, I would like to recommend that the following two topics be addressed. This will mean a slight revision to the proposal:
Address and provide a response placed appropriately in the proposal regarding the Postbac student question from Kent.
Change references to “community college” students in the proposal, wherever this phrase they might appear, to “transfer students” or “student transfers” in that students interested in the program may also come from four year institutions.
If you or Helene have any problems reposting the proposal following revisions please let me know.
Other than these two changes no other changes to the proposal appear to be needed.
I will send you comments from the Admissions Office regarding the articulation of Willamette University’s courses separately.
Finally, I will ask Sarah Williams to post the email below to the proposal in the “Other Documents” section so that each of the review groups will have an opportunity to review the questions and the responses from the Registrar. Since the Budgets and Fiscal Planning Committee has already been sent this proposal, I will let them know of the changes that have been made to the proposal once the changes have, in fact, been made.
Gary L. Beach
From: Kuo, Kent
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 11:20 AM
To: Beach, Gary
Cc: Peterson, Kate; Severs, Doug; Day, James; Flint, Amy; Laurence, Nancy; Watts, Tom
Subject: RE: Baccalaureate 3 + 3 Law Program Proposal with Willamette University
I met with my management team and came up with the following (including one question):
Question: Does this program apply to Postbaccs. If so, how would the credits work out for that group of people since they have already earned a degree? If the program is not available to Postbaccs, then that should be clearly articulated in the agreement.
AR 25: Just wanted to reiterate that AR 25.h does put a restriction of 48 law credits (quarter credits, not semester credits) that can be used to complete a degree at OSU. This proposal appears to be within that limit. We are comfortable that this MOU will meet the academic residency requirements and the upper division requirements also articulated in AR 25.
Student transfers: We would recommend that the phrasing specific to Community College student transfers be revised to just student transfers. There will be instances where a student is transferring in course work from more than just a community college. It seems to us the spirit of what is intended is to suggest that a student must have 45 credits taken at OSU in addition to 45-48 quarter credits taken at Willamette to earn a bachelors degree at OSU under this program. That suggests that students need to be limited to a grand total of 90 transferable quarter credits from any institution that can be applied to meeting OSU’s degree requirements under this program, not just community college course work. Additionally, since we are discussing quarter credits, it would also be advisable to use the phrase quarter credits when appropriate, and semester credits for Willamette University courses in the MOU.
Financial Aid: I spoke with Kate Peterson (Doug is out for a few days), and she indicated this was already resolved. When the student is at OSU, OSU’s financial aid office will cover. When the student is at Willamette University (and the student does have to apply to Willamette’s financial aid office), Willamette will cover for that fourth year (on).
Senior Year: We do need to keep the student’s academic record active during their time at Willamette. Our concern is that their record would be inactivated by our automated processes after four regular academic terms of absence. My suggestion (which the EM Directors are going to discuss tomorrow) is to code this group of students (as if they were DPP) by adding a DPP institution code of Willamette University. Kate is considering it, but we do have to see about how to exclude that population of students from the official DPP counts.
Course work: We would anticipate that their course work would come back as transferable upper division credits to OSU. Admissions will handle that part of the process.
Block vs. Individual: We would prefer they come back as individual courses for use in MyDegrees…not as a block.
MyDegrees: We can program this into MyDegrees.
Coding: These students will remain in the majors they are originally affiliated with, and will graduate with those same degrees. There would be no secondary degree or major code for this population of students.
Washouts: If a student washes out of the program. All of their individual credits are still transferable back. It would be up to the advisors from each department/school/college to determine how those courses will correlate to the degree requirements of their original and current major(s). At the very least they will still be considered meeting the upper division course work and we would likely consider those courses as still being taken “in residence” for academic residency.
Honors College Thesis: Any student who has an Honors College thesis requirement would still need to meet that requirement even if they went through this program.
Oregon State University
From: Beach, Gary
Sent:Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:01 PM
To: Kuo, Kent
Subject: Baccalaureate 3 + 3 Law Program Proposal with Willamette University
I have an unusual request to make.
I would like to request that you and perhaps others (Amy, Nancy, Tom, Martin, Larry) in the Registrar’s Office take a look a draft MOU proposal. This the Accelerated Baccalaureate (BA, BS) / Law (JD) Degree Program with Willamette University. With this particular MOU proposal, to offer a program at a new location, we will be breaking some new ground.
I want to make sure that as the MOU proposal moves forward through the approval process that there are no insurmountable issues or problems. The proposal will probably be sent to the Budgets and Fiscal Planning Committee next week and then possibly to the Curriculum Council meeting the following week. The earliest it would be submitted on the Curriculum Council’s agenda would be during their May 13th meeting.
Here are several questions regarding this proposal that come to mind:
With regard to Academic Regulation 25, are there any issues?
With regard to Community College student transfers, would there need to a statement that only 90 credit hours would be transferable (rather than 124) because 45 are being transferred back to OSU from Willamette and a minimum of 45 credit hours are required to meet the residency requirement. For example:
90 Community College transfer
45 OSU (in residence—probably junior year)
45 Willamette University (courses taken by the student in their first year at Willamette University that would be transferred back to OSU to meet the 180 credit hour requirement for their baccalaureate degree).
How would this arrangement affect financial aid? Are there any issues?
How will OSU handle the senior year? Will the student be on a “leave of absence”? Will the student be a “stop out”? In other words, what are the issues during the fourth year, when the students will be in residence at Willamette University? The final semester of courses transferred back to OSU will not occur until late May of any given year.
We have a complete list of courses that will be taken by students who enter the Law program. Can they be transferred back to OSU as a block or would they come back as individual courses?
How would this 3 + 3 arrangement affect MyDegrees?
There are multiple departments/degree programs in CLA who will be baccalaureate degree program participants. Will the codes in Banner be treated the same way that the International Studies BA degree program is handled—with just one SIS major code?
If a student washes out of the Law program during the first year at Willamette, how will the student be readmitted back to a baccalaureate degree program at OSU? Will some or all of the courses completed at Willamette be transferred to OSU?
What about Honors College participation? If a student is an Honor College participant, how would they deal with the senior thesis requirement?
There are probably other questions that will arise as this proposal moves forward. I am trying to address as many of these now, rather than later. If other questions occur to you or someone else in the Registrar’s Office, please indicate the question and then provide a response. I will share this information with the review groups as they begin their review.
Note: I have asked the Admissions Office to look at the articulation of Willamette University courses (course equivalency and UDT).
Thanks for your assistance.
Gary L. Beach